Groupon Mandela Coin Deal is a ripoff - 2008 R5 MS66 at R1232!!

[xsiandreas 11]

I have noticed the following Groupon Deal which is a ripoff.

 

Coin Invest: Save 56% in National Deals

 

The deal offers 2008 R5 Mandela MS66 coins at R1232! The same coins sell for R100 to R200 on Bidorbuy. They also give unrealistic growth statistics for the coins. It appears Coin Investment is behind the ripoff. Anyway, I would advise anyone to stay far away from this "deal" and feel sorry for the 103 people that have already bought the coins.

[kyle2 10]

I saw this one too, unbelievably they all sold out the first time around! Shows what false advertising can do!:notrust:

[PBGold 10]

I have noticed the following Groupon Deal which is a ripoff.

 

Coin Invest: Save 56% in National Deals

 

The deal offers 2008 R5 Mandela MS66 coins at R1232! The same coins sell for R100 to R200 on Bidorbuy. They also give unrealistic growth statistics for the coins. It appears Coin Investment is behind the ripoff. Anyway, I would advise anyone to stay far away from this "deal" and feel sorry for the 103 people that have already bought the coins.

 

I hear what you are saying, but one must be careful not to use Bidorbuy as a price guide or catalogue. It is an auction website, not a "set in stone" price list.

 

There are many factors that can influence an auction. Just because an item for e.g. sells for R10 on BOB and R 100 in a shop does not mean that that item is worth R10. It simply means that it fetched R10 on auction. Perhaps a few bidders were sick or on holiday. Perhaps a few had internet problems. You will never know.

 

There is of course the fact that most Bobbers in the coin category are dealers and will therefore not bid a lot on items as they want to re-sell those items and must therefore factor in their own margins. I would estimate that 90% of active users in the coin section are in fact dealers. (full time,part time, suitcase etc etc) Therefore, items will not reach high prices unless it is a choice item.

 

Another aspect of this post that strikes me is that BOB allows existing dealers to be trashed openly like this. This is not the first time that I have seen posts on this forum trashing dealers. That is significant for me, because any posts that trash BOB are deleted or edited. That says alot about BOBs strategy in the coin market.

 

But I do get what you are saying about the Mandela R5s. I hear you.

[qball 12]

PBGold here we go again... :shock: I love a conspiracy theory... what strategy would that be again? I get confused... you never seem to answer that question? But are the coins not over priced in reality??? How does a thread about someone selling coins at well above the actual value of a coin be considered a strategy by bidorbuy? Should buyers not be protected from this sort of thing?

[Guest Guest]

What is a dealer?

 

PBGold says

 

There is of course the fact that most Bobbers in the coin category are dealers and will therefore not bid a lot on items as they want to re-sell those items and must therefore factor in their own margins. I would estimate that 90% of active users in the coin section are in fact dealers. (full time,part time, suitcase etc etc) Therefore, items will not reach high prices unless it is a choice item.

 

I have sold a few coins on BoB does that make me a suitcase dealer? If so surely the same applies when I sell a coin at the local numismatic society. In fact I would suggest that that makes every coin collector a "dealer" simply because they have sold a coin.

 

In my humble view a dealer is someone who makes a living out of buying and selling coins. If I am correct then the number of dealers actively buying or selling on BoB would be well below 10% of the actual number of individual participants.

 

Regardless, in my view, there is one very big flaw in the general thrust of the argument presented by PBGold and that is this...

 

The educated buyer:

 

In a newspaper/isolated online advert selling coins at exhorbitant prices it is easy for buyers to get "sucked in" because they normally have no way of first discussing their intended purchase with people in the know. When a potential buyer responds to the newspaper/online advert by phone the sales pitch of the seller can in no way be ratified by the "dealers" and others watching the listing (like on BoB). Conversely, on BoB you have (largely) an educated audience of buyers who are able to read or post questions on this coin category or in the listing before making an informed decision. As a result the seller has to be careful in how they respond as they are mindful that other collectors are watching. Furthermore, there is no need for impulse buying as auctions normally take several days to run - whereas newspaper/online ads are generally accompanied by the marketing ploy of BUY NOW before stocks run out.

 

ie as always it is a case of buyer beware... and I would advise a novice buyer to do so under the umbrella of a support group who can give them advice - this is one of the great FREE services that BoB provides everyone who buys or sells on here.

 

In fact the fine print of the ad says it all: First 500 customers, delivery within fourteen working days of Coupon redeemed. Thereafter, delivery within thirty working days... in other words there is no shortage of the coin advertised BUT a large % of the cost would be made up in covering the online marketing costs of this Mandela coin.

 

Just my point of view.

 

PS I bought six of these slabbed Mandela (66) coins over a year ago for R60 each, I doubt if they are worth much more today.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

Edited September 8, 2011 by ndoa18

[PBGold 10]

Hi Scott,

 

Yes, certainly, the term ‘dealer’ has taken on a whole host of different meanings in recent years. As some may think, I don’t have anything against part time dealers or Bobbers, they are a very important part of the industry. When I talk about active dealers I am talking about Bobbers who bid on an auction with the intent of re-selling that item in a short period of time. That’s 90% of Bob users I would say.

 

If I had to define an actual South African dealer, it would be as follows:

 

1. Makes a living by trading in numismatic items i.e. does it full time as a registered business (IT/VAT/PAYE etc)

2. Has dedicated business premises to full time trade. (not working from home or parents basement)

3. Authorized Mint, Refinery and SAAND (or another similar association) dealer and thereby bound to the ethical and honest trading aspects of these institutions.

4. Active on the Trade Show circuit, country wide

5. Active in the marketing and promotional areas i.e. advertising, product development etc.

6. Trades in a wide range of numismatic products (i.e. not just Mandelas every time they come around)

7. In it for the long run not just a few years to make a quick buck. A dealer will still be around in 50 years.

8. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of the industry in South Africa.

 

Some people claim to be 'dealers' but they could not even tell you if a Krugerrand is 22 or 24ct. A lot of these so-called ‘dealers’ popped up during the mandela craze to make a quick buck.

[Guest Guest]

The power of BoB

 

Hi PbGold

 

I generally agree with your definition of a dealer... interestingly a thread opened earlier today has just proved the point I was making about novice buyers being protected from dodgy sellers on BoB...

 

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/coins-notes-numismatist/14641-something-s-very-wrong-listing-bob.html

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson