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To All Buyers who feel inclined to give Negative or Neutral ratings

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qball
Here's my little 2c worth, keeping in mind I know nothing about stones, gems etc.. Just personal experience.. I have also occasionally sent out a defective or incorrect item.. we are all human afterall.. If it's a low value item (under R100), I have sent the replacement & a lot of times told the buyer not to waste any money sending the original back. It's just easier & keep everyone happy. Do I lose some money? Of course.. But I also have a happy buyer, who may come back, or recommend me to friends. Some buyers don't let a person know there's a problem until you see that horrible red face, but even then, I have sometimes sent replacements anyway - they spent their money on something they aren't happy with - bottom line.. Would be nice if they would change those ratings though..:wtf:

As I said, just my little input..

 

That is a great philosophy to have!

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Jongleur

A quote for both buyers and sellers:

 

" As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others, even the dull

and the ignorant, they too have their story".

 

From Desiderata - Max Ehrmann.

Edited by Jongleur

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Cali Craft and Gems

Granted a good philosophy (by Kebs), especially if by an honest seller, but it can be abused by the dishonest seller to "buy" the removal of negative ratings - oddly enough also seen on BoB!

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qball
You are quite right qball, there is NO logical reason or explanation. None certainly for anyone thinking that CCG's email could possibly have been cold or unsympathetic.

 

Here is my conclusion:

 

The buyer is a singer, and he was simply feeling preminstrel that day?

 

Aaaaah, but are you the buyer? You have allegiance to Janet, no one can fault you for that, and it is admirable (no sarcasm either), but honestly, you are not the buyer and have no way of knowing how he was feeling at the time. He felt aggrieved and Janet did not really help him.

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Cali Craft and Gems
Aaaaah, but are you the buyer? You have allegiance to Janet, no one can fault you for that, and it is admirable (no sarcasm either), but honestly, you are not the buyer and have no way of knowing how he was feeling at the time. He felt aggrieved and Janet did not really help him.

 

Someone (think it was Mellow) that asked if it was possible I was having a bad day - actually I was not thus the polite reply, but it could very possibly be that the seller was not feeling "on top of the world" thus him taking a quick brief reply as being unpleasant?

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Seeds for Africa
In reply to Seeds - never denied the buyer the right to return the item - been waiting for his decision since my first correspondence - he eventually replied that he was not going to send it back (although now apparently he is but will be issuing the tracking number to Cuan). It takes him going back and forth, arguments, comments, etc via Cuan, etc for him to actually possibly send it back... he never bothered to contact me directly after informing me on his opinion about me!

 

Re profit - herewith below this particular gems' entry in my worksheet - cost, selling date & price, listing fees and resulting profit... I think it speaks for itself:

 

[TABLE=width: 825]

[TR]

[TD]Quantity

[/TD]

[TD]Description (Colour/size/shape etc.)

[/TD]

[TD]Item number

[/TD]

[TD]Cost

[/TD]

[TD]Code

[/TD]

[TD]Date

[/TD]

[TD]R inc PO

[/TD]

[TD]Sold on

[/TD]

[TD]R sold

[/TD]

[TD]List fees

[/TD]

[TD]Profit

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1

[/TD]

[TD]37.30ct labradorite pear cab

[/TD]

[TD]150575244***

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$8.99

[/TD]

[TD]VG217

[/TD]

[TD]17-Mar

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]R 64.43

[/TD]

[TD]13-May

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]R 80.00

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]R 10.00

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]R 5.57

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

My point was that even if you had refunded him and paid for the postage to get it back to you, the profit on the rest of the items would have more than taken care of the loss incurred on repostage. We all have sales that go wrong and sometimes it makes better sense to just keep the buyer happy, come out of the sale even and keep your reputation (ratings) intact.

 

I have had two international buyers in the last week who never received their parcels that I mailed via International registered mail. Enquiries at the post office cant tell me anything other than that they left the country. Knowing that I am unlikely to get anywhere with the post office I offerred both buyers the option of a full refund or to resend the order. Both requested the orders to be resent. The value of those orders is R 106 and R150. No, I dont want to part with the cash, but the fact is the buyer doesnt have what he has paid for. I can tell him its not my business and that its the postal service, however that doesnt sit right with me. Both customers have had their full orders resent at my cost, and I have happy buyers. I have made a big loss on both sales but the bigger picture is that if I dug my heels in and toild him its not my problem, they would never buy from me again and I would likely end up with adverse ratings.

 

Anyways for R80 I wouldnt lose any more sleep over this. I think you may still have a chance to rectify this to the customer and bobs stausfaction by refunding the customer in full (on the stone in question) with postage and by apologising for all the back and forth.

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qball
PS. Just thinking... Look at it from the sellers' point of view:

 

1) buyer emails stating that there are marks on the gem that he is not pleased with.

2) buyer rates negative (1) and neutral (6) on the remaining items

3) seller responds to the buyer stating that the marks mentioned are visible in the images, but if he is not happy, he is welcome to return the items

4) buyer replies stating that he is saddened by my cold and unsympathetic response

5) seller again states that if he is not happy, he must please return the item

6) buyer replies that he refuses to return the item as he does not like my terms and conditions

7) matter is taken to BoB

8) buyer suddenly states that gem received is "nothing" like the one listed and provides images to BoB proving his point

9) buyer also conveniently highlights that the dimensions are also wrong - this was never mentioned to the seller.

 

To me, this screams one thing only - the buyer is a chancer and is trying to swop out another gem for the one the seller sent. How come the buyer never mentioned to the seller that the dimensions were wrong, etc - not just the chip on the top end and marks on the side?

 

I am waiting for the buyer to return the item and I'll do what BoB says, but no-one at BoB can answer me "what if I'm not in the wrong"? I must apparently still fork out payment to the buyer... (as per previous post, how can I the seller prove my innocence?)

 

I may be wrong, but what if I'm right? Buyer 1, BoB 1, seller -2!

 

I'll leave it at that...

 

 

You are essentially calling him a liar and chancer here.

 

Again, you are making assumptions here about his character with no real evidence or indication that he will do this - he has no reason to do this, as you have his money and won't refund if it's a different stone. You can take pics of the stone upon arrival and we will compare it to what was sent by the buyer to us and then to you. Again, he has nothing to gain from this. It is not an expensive item, it is not a precious stone, has limited collectable value, it's certainly not an investment piece! The man paid your almost R1000, for pete's sake. In fact he has confirmed he doesn't even want a refund, does this sound like someone trying to shine you on?

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qball
I have not and will not publicly label anyone a liar - that is just asking for trouble!

 

I have however attempted to point out certain things hypothetically and have not received the answers thereto. If read carefully (the one entry in particular which I think you are referring to), it does also state that "I may be wrong, but what if I'm right?"...

 

It takes all types to make the world go round, and granted not everyone is as honest as we'd like them to be (or trust them to be). Anything is possible, and without having the item in my hands, I cannot pass judgement on the issue. I have admitted several times already that sometimes I do make mistakes, but I have taken many steps from past experiences to avoid making mistakes - including giving the exact measurements to the micron where possible on items - at the time of doing the listing. (this is my only assurance that the gem issued is the one listed in this case particularly - as mentioned before)

 

Ultimately, the one question remains - "how can it be proven that the item returned by the buyer is actually the one that was sent to him or her in the first place?" (this applies to absolutely anything that is sold on BoB that does not have a serial number)

 

It's called trust Janet. He paid you almost R1000 based on trust (never having met you and has purchased from you before without incident) history and experience dictates that he is not a chancer or someone of questionable integrity, the least you can do is reciprocate!

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Cali Craft and Gems

Point: I never said buyer was a liar!

 

An assumption is just that - an assumption. Not carved in stone stating xyz.

 

Buyer has never been denied the right to send the item back. In fact when I asked for his decision, his eventual reply was no. Then suddenly things change, sizes change, etc. Sounds very odd does it not? Still, I am waiting for the item to be returned - if he so wishes to do that.

 

I feel that I am having to repeat myself over and over again... and it seems like only "between the lines" is being seen... oh well.

 

Go home Cuan - the moon is up... (and smile - don't stress so much - don't give me reason to give you more grey hairs!) :grin:

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Cali Craft and Gems

@ Admin - got one - want some?

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Cali Craft and Gems

And in closing:

 

Dear ******

 

I would like to convey my sincerest apologies for the way in which this matter was handled.

 

After much afterthought, I have come to realise that perhaps in my haste to respond to your initial enquiry about the stone, I may have come across at being "abrupt". This was not my intention - I was just not wanting for you to wait until I got back to the office for a reply thus possibly instilling the concern that your query was being ignored.

 

I admit also that in this haste I forgot to explain the relevance or extension of the returns policy insofar as that the handling fee and non-refundable shipping clause was not applicable in this case - I see now that this was a serious oversight on my behalf for which I apologise again. I will be changing the wording in my terms and conditions to explain this clause as to avoid future confrontation or confusion.

 

I understand that many words have been shared in all directions and some of which were not pleasant nor called for. I admit that I was wrong in many circumstances with regards to your query, and ask for your forgiveness.

 

As a token of my appreciation for your support that you have shown me in the recent past, I ask of you to please keep the Labradorite in question and I will send you a little something extra as a sincere apology.

 

I trust that this matter will finally come to rest and that someday you will find it in your heart to trust me once again, to accept my apology and forgive me.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact myself or Cuan if you have any further enquiries.

 

Kind regards,

Janet Belstead

Cali Craft and Gems

 

Sent to the buyer and to Cuan at 21h22 on 23 May 2012. Tracking number provided to Cuan via email, and to the buyer via the system. Photographs of parcel including "gifts" have been provided to Cuan. Parcel will be dispatched on my way to the shop on Thursday.

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Miss Jewels

Way to to Janet! So happy for the way this has turned out. I have never yet been disappointed in any of the stones I've bought from you and believe in good communication at all times. A deep breath before replying to certain comments has saved my butt a few times.:idea: The R80.00 is really not worth throwing one's good name and reputation down a drain.....Good luck to both buyer and seller for future transactions.

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Seeds for Africa

Excellent Calicraft! I am sure that everyone will now feel a lot better about this!

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Jongleur
And in closing:

 

Dear ******

 

I would like to convey my sincerest apologies for the way in which this matter was handled.

 

After much afterthought, I have come to realise that perhaps in my haste to respond to your initial enquiry about the stone, I may have come across at being "abrupt". This was not my intention - I was just not wanting for you to wait until I got back to the office for a reply thus possibly instilling the concern that your query was being ignored.

 

I admit also that in this haste I forgot to explain the relevance or extension of the returns policy insofar as that the handling fee and non-refundable shipping clause was not applicable in this case - I see now that this was a serious oversight on my behalf for which I apologise again. I will be changing the wording in my terms and conditions to explain this clause as to avoid future confrontation or confusion.

 

I understand that many words have been shared in all directions and some of which were not pleasant nor called for. I admit that I was wrong in many circumstances with regards to your query, and ask for your forgiveness.

 

As a token of my appreciation for your support that you have shown me in the recent past, I ask of you to please keep the Labradorite in question and I will send you a little something extra as a sincere apology.

 

I trust that this matter will finally come to rest and that someday you will find it in your heart to trust me once again, to accept my apology and forgive me.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact myself or Cuan if you have any further enquiries.

 

Kind regards,

Janet Belstead

Cali Craft and Gems

 

Sent to the buyer and to Cuan at 21h22 on 23 May 2012. Tracking number provided to Cuan via email, and to the buyer via the system. Photographs of parcel including "gifts" have been provided to Cuan. Parcel will be dispatched on my way to the shop on Thursday.

 

Very admirable Cali. I admire your spirit.

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Cali Craft and Gems

On a lighter note - just going through the News24 site and decided to take a peek at my horoscope for today:

 

...Any decision made today is likely to be an emotional one... and - We’re all creating our world with our thoughts and words. We make problems, and solve them, with thinking and speaking. To flavour this mix, emotions could stir up muddy water... and the success strategies for the week include - Talking solves problems • Keep emotions under control!

 

Dang - should have checked out the horoscope this morning. Already told a younger relative this morning to grow some ... uhm... marbles and to stop hanging onto his mother's apron strings!

 

Sorry for the grey hairs Cuan! :)

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MsPlod
Quite frankly as a buyer, if I received all that in an email from a seller and I am being very honest here - I would never buy again online - not only from BoB, but nowhere.

Voldermort, I (as a buyer only) have had far FAR worse than that from three traders on BoB - and guess what? Two of them are still trading and dishing out negative ratings and SNCs regularly (and have been for many years). Their ratings (and their communications) are drenched with sarcasm, nastiness and ill-will. One learns simply to be a discerning buyer.

Any way, that's all I am saying, no more from my side, it's like banging my head against a wall, repeatedly!

Never figured you as a head banger Cuan... Were you banging your head in your many posts written after you wrote this?

Ultimately, the one question remains - "how can it be proven that the item returned by the buyer is actually the one that was sent to him or her in the first place?"

The most important person to prove that fact to is yourself - because you want and need to know. Stuff what anyone else thinks !!! Those who don't "get it" - never will.

You have allegiance to Janet, no one can fault you for that, and it is admirable (no sarcasm either)...

What a very strange word to bring up qball - "allegiance"? I have bought thousands of rands worth of items from CCG, have come to know Janet both on and off the forum, of course I have an "allegiance" to Janet. Why on earth bring that up? I support many traders consistently on this forum - wherever and whenever I can.

...but honestly, you are not the buyer and have no way of knowing how he was feeling at the time. He felt aggrieved and Janet did not really help him.

No, of course I am "not the buyer". But for someone (anyone) to give a negative rating in return for the first email that Janet sent - is IMO entirely unreasonable and illogical. Hence my conclusion about their ability to sing...

 

You berate traders for expressing their "feelings" - here is a buyer who had a gripe and has IMO gone overboard with the issue - expressing his "feelings" and apparently sanctioned by BoB to do so.

:wtf:

Few traders - few people - would express no "feelings" in response to being called words such as "cold" and "unsympathetic", particularly when they had been simply professional. The buyer chose to read all sorts of "feelings" into CCGs first response. That was the spark that started this fire. CCG has finally chosen to walk the high road on the matter.

 

CCG - Congratulations for the way you have chosen to resolve the issue! You "done good"...

 

Now, where IS that popcorn...

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mellowred

Nice CCG. :grin:

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kyle2

Thank you Cuan for not closing this thread and letting it run its course, it seems there was an amicable solution at the end after all.

 

PS. I still think putting that question before the negative rating would solve a lot of this T|t for tat rating found on BoB of late......:smile1:

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mellowred
....... PS. I still think putting that question before the negative rating would solve a lot of this T|t for tat rating found on BoB of late......:smile1:

 

Agreed. It's a psychological thing. Won't work on seasoned baddies, but will make the buyer/seller think a bit before dishing out those first few bad ratings.

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kyle2
Agreed. It's a psychological thing. Won't work on seasoned baddies, but will make the buyer/seller think a bit before dishing out those first few bad ratings.

 

Honestly I think it will work on The Seasoned Baddies, purely because there is now something different and they might feel that this may bite them in the butt at some point(which if it is implemented correctly will do just that!). Even baddies have a conscience, buried deep inside them somewhere!:toung:

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mellowred

They have ?? :sneaky:

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MsPlod
Thank you Cuan for not closing this thread and letting it run its course, it seems there was an amicable solution at the end after all.

Hear hear!

PS. I still think putting that question before the negative rating would solve a lot of this T|t for tat rating found on BoB of late......:smile1:

Hear hear hear hear!!

Agreed. It's a psychological thing. Won't work on seasoned baddies, but will make the buyer/seller think a bit before dishing out those first few bad ratings.

Have to agree with you then disagree with you (a bit) and agree with Kyle (if you know what I mean)...

 

I think it would even work on the seasoned baddies. For one thing, it could be a means for BoB to start nailing the "seasoned baddies" by saying that they answered "that" question untruthfully...

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kyle2

Come on Cuan, I have not seen any objection yet to implementing this very very smaaall little tiny minescule change to the negative ratings system which will definately make a huuuuuuuuuuuge positive impact on buyers and sellers and BoB - especially your complaints dept!:grin:

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Cali Craft and Gems

Reply received from buyer this morning:

 

Dear Janet, allow me a few lines to express my gratitude.

I am humbled by your apology.

I have the greatest regard and immense respect for the route you chose.

You have grown tremendously in my estimation.

I agree that this issue should never have escalated to the proportions it did.

Be assured of my unconditional acceptance of your apology.

I bear no grudge and wish you every success with your business henceforth.

Thank you, I will keep the Labradorite and display it in a special place to always remind me of your magnamity and kindness.

Kind regards.

******

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