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To All Buyers who feel inclined to give Negative or Neutral ratings

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qball
Yes - the entire order was for over R900 but he is unhappy with the R80 Labradorite. BoB stated that no-one will kick up a fuss over a "meagre R80" but you never know... I've come across and experienced many unbelievable things on BoB over the years!

 

This is highly unlikely in this case!

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kyle2

Hi Cuan, I know this subject has and forever will be debated, but would it not help everyone, buyers and sellers alike, to put one small step in the negative rating process, a simple question or 2, i.e. "Before you continue with the negative rating, have you contacted the seller/buyer to try and resolve the issue?", and "Are you certain you wish to continue with the negative rating, the buyer/seller did not try and resolve the situation?". I am sure the propeller heads at BoB could whip this in there without a problem. I am 100% positive this would help to slow down negative ratings, anyone with a conscience would think twice after reading questions like these before rating negatively.

BoB would be doing everyone a great service by implementing the above, guaranteed!:idea:

Edited by kyle2

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qball
Hi Cuan, I know this subject has and forever will be debated, but would it not help everyone, buyers and sellers alike, to put one small step in the negative rating process, a simple question or 2, i.e. "Before you continue with the negative rating, have you contacted the seller/buyer to try and resolve the issue?", and "Are you certain you wish to continue with the negative rating, the buyer/seller did not try and resolve the situation?". I am sure the propeller heads at BoB could whip this in there without a problem. I am 100% positive this would help to slow down negative ratings, anyone with a conscience would think twice after reading questions like these before rating negatively.

BoB would be doing everyone a great service by implementing the above, guaranteed!:idea:

 

Unfortunately the person can select the yes option - it does not help anything, it won't change anything, they can then still rate negative. So people will manipulate such a process if implemented.

 

On the whole the rating system works fine, it's when buyers and sellers start to use it to manipulate situations, revenge rate each other, that the system seems to fail. It's not the system at fault, but the people using it. It would be better to try get people to use it correctly than implement more steps, which can and will be manipulated.

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kyle2
Unfortunately the person can select the yes option - it does not help anything, it won't change anything, they can then still rate negative. So people will manipulate such a process if implemented.

 

On the whole the rating system works fine, it's when buyers and sellers start to use it to manipulate situations, revenge rate each other, that the system seems to fail. It's not the system at fault, but the people using it. It would be better to try get people to use it correctly than implement more steps, which can and will be manipulated.

 

I am willing to bet money that if you implemented what I have suggested, the negative rating stats will drop to some degree.

Why not take a census among bobbers, buyers and sellers alike and find out? What has Bob got to lose anyway?:smile1:

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qball

We have nothing to lose, but I can tell you now, we won't be doing it :smile1:. If you have been following this thread you will see that people react and jump the gun, no matter what is happening, and will abuse any system that is put in place, experience (years of it) will be happy to take your money... :toung:

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kyle2
We have nothing to lose, but I can tell you now, we won't be doing it :smile1:. If you have been following this thread you will see that people react and jump the gun, no matter what is happening, and will abuse any system that is put in place, experience (years of it) will be happy to take your money... :toung:

 

For the sake of all bobbers if you wish to prove me wrong, I'll take that bet, run it for a month and then lets see..... If you are right, I'll take you to lunch or hand you a cheque for your favourite charity.

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qball

We don't bet here... :grin:

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Seeds for Africa
For the sake of all bobbers if you wish to prove me wrong, I'll take that bet, run it for a month and then lets see..... If you are right, I'll take you to lunch or hand you a cheque for your favourite charity.

 

I cant agree more with Kyle - what have bob got to lose here? Yes you will get some buyers / sellers who ignore the question and just rate but I strongly believe that this will cut down on negatives. Kyle - when you take Cuan out to lunch - I will pay for the dessert (that is assuming you are taking him to Wimpy!

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kyle2
We don't bet here... :grin:

 

Challenge then, with the same benifits:sneaky:

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kyle2
I cant agree more with Kyle - what have bob got to lose here? Yes you will get some buyers / sellers who ignore the question and just rate but I strongly believe that this will cut down on negatives. Kyle - when you take Cuan out to lunch - I will pay for the dessert (that is assuming you are taking him to Wimpy!

 

If it works, and I know it will, Cuan will be taking me to lunch.........

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Reynet Trading

I have a suggestion to make about this whole rating system.

 

Can't there be something like a personal message window popping up when a buyer or seller decides to give a neutral or negative rating, just to force them to make contact with the buyer/ seller. In this way all communication go through BoB , and then if the seller/ buyer does not respond within say 24hours the rating get listed.

 

In this way it will not be giving a neutral/ negative but filling for a neutral/ negative.

It is easier to stop unfair ratings than to get them removed once given.

Just my 2c

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jphotography

I have been reading so many times about negative ratings, I think that all newbies who registered to buy on BOB should have their rating button disabled untill they have bought at least 10 items. There after they should be able to rate. This way they will know more about how ratings will work. People must remember that not all newbies are very clever and they do not realize why the rating system is in place, they see it just as a way of communicating.

Many people register fake accounts to get revenge back and then give negative ratings without really buying stuff, this way it will help with people creating fake accounts aswell.

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Cali Craft and Gems

Cuan:

 

If you look at the entire picture from the word go with the Labradorite buyer - he sent me an email saying he is not happy with the stone and what can be done about it.

 

I replied to him (via the system so you can see the message word for word), that if he is not happy with the stone, he has the option to return it. I also said in the same message that I await his decision.

 

He replies stating that he is sad with my cold and unsympathetic response followed by the ratings. In my opinion he never wanted to return the item thus him never stating that he wanted to take up that option. Instead he plays dirty in the ratings and I retaliate - naturally!

 

It goes on and on and the entire time I am repeating over and over for the buyer to return the item - or must I start screaming it for it to be heard? At the end of the day, you get involved, and we both know I am not on your list of favourite people so this drags on and on, and the buyer has still not returned the item - nor indicated that he will. At no stage whatsoever has the buyer been denied the right to return the item - I've been waiting the entire time!

 

Re the link to the website, if you took the time to actually look at the website before tackling me to the ground, you will see that there are ZERO contact details in the website and it merely directs the user straight back to the bidorbuy website. This matter was cleared a very long time ago (on the forum if I'm not mistaken) that a bidorbuy user CAN issue / advertise their personal website link on condition that there is zero contact information. Here again it indicates to me that you're just picking on me for another thing, and I'm getting rather tired of the pettiness.

 

Basically at the end of the day I am only human - just as you are I assume. I am here to run a business - and not a bad one either it seems as over my years on BoB I have many happy customers and the ratings alone can prove this, but if you are to start putting a NEW buyer on a pedestal without remaining neutral in the matter, then I do not know.

 

I'll leave it at that.

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qball

The answer is still no.

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qball
Cuan:

 

If you look at the entire picture from the word go with the Labradorite buyer - he sent me an email saying he is not happy with the stone and what can be done about it.

 

I replied to him (via the system so you can see the message word for word), that if he is not happy with the stone, he has the option to return it. I also said in the same message that I await his decision.

 

He replies stating that he is sad with my cold and unsympathetic response followed by the ratings. In my opinion he never wanted to return the item thus him never stating that he wanted to take up that option. Instead he plays dirty in the ratings and I retaliate - naturally!

 

It goes on and on and the entire time I am repeating over and over for the buyer to return the item - or must I start screaming it for it to be heard? At the end of the day, you get involved, and we both know I am not on your list of favourite people so this drags on and on, and the buyer has still not returned the item - nor indicated that he will. At no stage whatsoever has the buyer been denied the right to return the item - I've been waiting the entire time!

 

Re the link to the website, if you took the time to actually look at the website before tackling me to the ground, you will see that there are ZERO contact details in the website and it merely directs the user straight back to the bidorbuy website. This matter was cleared a very long time ago (on the forum if I'm not mistaken) that a bidorbuy user CAN issue / advertise their personal website link on condition that there is zero contact information. Here again it indicates to me that you're just picking on me for another thing, and I'm getting rather tired of the pettiness.

 

Basically at the end of the day I am only human - just as you are I assume. I am here to run a business - and not a bad one either it seems as over my years on BoB I have many happy customers and the ratings alone can prove this, but if you are to start putting a NEW buyer on a pedestal without remaining neutral in the matter, then I do not know.

 

I'll leave it at that.

 

Now we play the personal vendetta card? You are welcome to have an opinion on that - I have a problem with the way you do things sometimes, as with any other seller, who is being unreasonable, rude, abusive, retaliatory etc. or who refuses to put themselves in the buyers shoes.

 

He was not happy with the fact that you want him to pay for the shipping back and a 20% restocking fee - when it appears that the stone sent was not the same as was advertised, why should he? Again, I agree with him, regardless of whether he is new, has no ratings or 10000 ratings. You refused to budge on your "terms" when you may be wrong and admitted you did not check the stone before sending it out, yet you retaliate, calling him malicious, a liar, dishonest. Wow... :suspicious:

 

The time wasted on this issue is worth far more than R80, going back and forth with the accusations etc. You love to air your dirty laundry in public and when you are taken to task on it, you accuse people of having personal vendettas? I am human but I don't allow my emotions to get the better of me and retaliate in the way I would really like to.

 

I am also big enough and humble enough to admit when I am wrong, I saw the link in your messages and did not follow it, for this I apologise sincerely.

 

Now if you want to carry on with the personal vendetta, please proceed...

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Cali Craft and Gems

As per usual, if the seller is at fault, then the returns policy does not apply. But if the buyer changes their mind, then obviously the returns policy applies.

 

Without physically seeing the item, how could I state who was at fault? I could not. That is why the buyer was given the option to return the item (for inspection as per usual) and then the refund would be made accordingly. I had to ask BoB for the images only after I had heard that the buyer had supplied them to you - not the seller!

 

If the buyer for what ever reason refuses to return the item, how can the seller make amends? Just because I gave the buyer the choice to return the item so that I can look at it, I get labelled.

 

As per one of my previous entries, if admitting to the buyer that I did not inspect the item at the time of packaging and making him aware that he could return the item makes me cold and unsympathetic, how can this be worded differently? Still waiting for an answer on that one...

 

Still waiting to hear if the item is going to be returned...

 

And still waiting to know how a seller can prove that the item sent to a buyer is the one that is returned? (hypothetically - and not necessarily to this case in point)

 

The list can be endless...

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

Like sands through the hourglass......so are the DAYS OF OUR LIVES!!

Or should it be the BALD AND NOT SO BEAUTIFUL?

Edited by ATA STAMP CENTRE

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MsPlod

CCG - I did "warn" you several days back...

Say five hundred times "Red lorry yellow lorry red lorry yellow lorry" and then remove your negative ratings...

CCG - the neg ratings "revenge ratings" were your biggest (possibly ONLY) mistake here. The situation is a nasty one - but you have used so much energy on this issue - it just does not do you any good. Your health is suffering, qball is back on your case (more about that below) and the issue is just not going away. I truly hope that the red lorry yellow lorry returns the labradorite and that you can at least satisfy yourself (if not BoB) that you are correct (or not). Mistakes DO happen - I know that because I make them daily.

 

Move on - for your own sake... Please!

And still waiting to know how a seller can prove that the item sent to a buyer is the one that is returned? (hypothetically - and not necessarily to this case in point)

Maybe take your camera to the PO, as well as a piece of paper and pen and open the returned labradorite in front of the SAPO staff member. Take photos (of the SAPO environ as well as the staff member) and ask the SAPO postmaster / office manager / whoever to sign that you opened it there and that was the item taken from the parcel. Buyers have to do that to prove broken items.

 

THEN...

 

Qball - regarding your comment here...

You love to air your dirty laundry in public and when you are taken to task on it, you accuse people of having personal vendettas?

I do not see that as being fair. The sellers here need a place to discuss tricky buyers. It remains entirely possible that this MAY be a tricky buyer.

 

What I find FASCINATING is that CCG brought this issue to the forum to discuss, yes, the issue has raged out of control a bit, however there are traders who revenge rate - left right and centre - and get away with it on a weekly basis. One in particular comes to mind, whose stones seldom resemble anything like the items advertised for sale.

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Miss Jewels
Kyle - when you take Cuan out to lunch - I will pay for the dessert (that is assuming you are taking him to Wimpy!

I'll pay for the water, as Cuan does not drink :grin:

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Cali Craft and Gems

Thank you Ms Plod - at last someone who understands... (and someone who is also not on the favourites list at times I've seen).

 

Although much energy has been spent on this saga, it has actually opened my eyes to a few matters that have needed attention - I'm doing a lot of "clearing out the rubbish" at the moment... and getting things off my chest (no matter how hurtful they may be to others) is making me feel a lot better. (more about that later - I think I should put my thoughts to paper for it to make more sense to others)

 

I must however point out that I was raised to always be honest and truthful. I admit that I, as most humans, have made mistakes in the past and have always made amends where possible. Most times my honesty has actually gotten me into the hot seat (on several occasions - especially recently) but I believe it is for a reason and for the best in the end.

 

Perhaps I am too honest to be a good business person, but it is what works for me and it seems like there are a few individuals who don't like it - well... toughies! I'm here to stay - I never said I was perfect, and you do not have to like me if you don't want to - it's your choice entirely.

 

But one thing I have come to realise - and not just here on BoB - is that certain people are judged, sentenced and hung before they even get approached for their side of the matter (and I know I'm not the only one on BoB, by example).

 

Oh well... let me do tracking numbers, and start writing my "thoughts" whilst the shop is quiet... perhaps I should take up another BoBbers' advice and get my writings published... :)

 

PS. I am not ashamed to air my dirty laundry because at least I know it comes out clean in the wash!

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MsPlod
... (and someone who is also not on the favourites list at times I've seen).

Very delicately put CCG LOL!!

PS. I am not ashamed to air my dirty laundry because at least I know it comes out clean in the wash!

Hah hah hah! Toooooo true...

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mellowred

IMO this whole saga is out of control. Cali, you have had an issue with ratings for a while now and with buyers "not reading" & "not looking at the listing".

 

I can imagine that your original response to his complaint was "oh boy, another buyer who can't read!!". We all get like that when confronted with the same issue over and over again.

 

So while you feel that your response was courteous, you may well have come across as offhanded and unsympathetic. I'm a Sagittarian, and often the words flow out of my mouth before the brain kicks in so I am often guilty of this myself.

 

Checking the buyers ratings to sellers, he does not seem unreasonable, in fact he is very polite and personalizes the ratings.

 

Is it possible that he caught you on a bad day and you overreacted? I'm just picturing this man with his R900 worth of stones and there is just one he is not totally happy with and, having received great service from you so far, he questions you about it. IF your reply was a bit offhanded, it may have caught him off-guard. The fact that HE has to pay to return a stone that he feels is inferior would be likely to tick anyone off. And so the saga began(?).

 

I just feel that if he wanted to lie and cause trouble for you, he would have complained about all the items, not just an R80 stone.

 

Hope this whole thing calms down and gets resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

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qball
IMO this whole saga is out of control. Cali, you have had an issue with ratings for a while now and with buyers "not reading" & "not looking at the listing".

 

I can imagine that your original response to his complaint was "oh boy, another buyer who can't read!!". We all get like that when confronted with the same issue over and over again.

 

So while you feel that your response was courteous, you may well have come across as offhanded and unsympathetic. I'm a Sagittarian, and often the words flow out of my mouth before the brain kicks in so I am often guilty of this myself.

 

Checking the buyers ratings to sellers, he does not seem unreasonable, in fact he is very polite and personalizes the ratings.

 

Is it possible that he caught you on a bad day and you overreacted? I'm just picturing this man with his R900 worth of stones and there is just one he is not totally happy with and, having received great service from you so far, he questions you about it. IF your reply was a bit offhanded, it may have caught him off-guard. The fact that HE has to pay to return a stone that he feels is inferior would be likely to tick anyone off. And so the saga began(?).

 

I just feel that if he wanted to lie and cause trouble for you, he would have complained about all the items, not just an R80 stone.

 

Hope this whole thing calms down and gets resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

 

Thank you for being the voice of reason, clearly my reasoning is flawed :smile1:

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voldermort

As a totally impartial observer, I don't buy or sell stones - what I do find a bit concerning is this

"When the stock arrives, it is checked and coded. When I do the listings, I pull stock from the draws and do not find it necessary to reinspect the items when the listings are done as only I have access to my stock".

Perhaps it may serve you better to reinspect all your items before listing them & to take countless photos of each item before putting them on BoB.Yes, it is incredibly hard work taking countless images of one single item but at least then any & every flaw will be clearly visible? Each & every buyer is different, some buyers have no trouble parting with thousands of rands for a totally useless item, to another buyer R80 is a lot of money - if this buyer did indeed purchase R900 from you & only complained about this one R80 item, that shows this buyer was not out to attack you but was clearly unhappy with this particular item - surely you should have just bit the bullet & refunded him without asking for a restocking refund? I am fully aware that some buyers are completely unreasonable & nothing a seller does can or will please them, but had you refunded him his R80 without a quibble I am sure your negative & neutrals may have disappeared into the great beyond.

Once again I am not taking sides here, & I know from first hand how much hard work is needed to sell on BoB but I really think R80 does not warrant giving your buyer a string of negatives & also getting into an argument with BoB with all here on the forum able to see.

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mellowred
Thank you for being the voice of reason, clearly my reasoning is flawed :smile1:

 

Just removed the emotion ..... :toung:

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