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AngelaBraun

Extremely Rare, Very Scarce Unique

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AngelaBraun

HAVE YOU NOTICED LATELY JUST HOW OFTEN THE WORDS EXREMELY RARE, VERY SCARCE, UNIQUE etc etc etc IS BEING USED BY SELLERS OF STAMPS. AND ARE THEY HONESTLY THAT SCARCE, RARE, UNIQUE. THERE ARE QUITE A FEW I HAVE NOTICED WHICH ARE FAR FROM SDCARCE UNIQUE OR RARE.

 

ANOTHER PLOY BEING USED IS THE DECEASED ESTATE LOT WITH HORRIBLE PHOTOGRAPHS TO SHOW THE ITEM ON OFFER. SURELY WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS, AFTER ALL IF YOU ARE TRADING WITH HONESTY, YOU WILL TRY TO GIVE PROSPECTIVE BUYERS THE BEST QUALITY SCAN POSSIBLE TO SEE JUST HOW GOOD YOUR ITEM REALLY IS. HOW CAN YOU EXPECT A BUYER TO CONSIDER YOUR ITEM WHEN YOU WONT EVEN SCAN THE CONTENT BEEN OFFERED. I KNOW IT TAKES TIME, AND A LOT OF HARD WORK TO DO IT, BUT I WOULD RATHER SELL LESS ITEMS AND GIVE MY CUSTOMERS A PERFECT INSIGHT INTO WHAT THEY ARE GETTING.

 

JUST A LITTLE FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

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qball

Hi Angela

 

Thank you for your post, please don't use caps in your posts, it denotes "shouting".

 

Thank you

Cuan

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AngelaBraun

Shame on you CUAN, Have I not been reprimanded already, you have been beaten to the punch. As you can see I am trying very hard to adhere to not shouting. If it wasn't for the fact that I have met you and know what a nice guy you are I would probably have been offended. Have a wonderful Crazy Day.

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qball

Hi Angela

 

Thanks for the reply... no offense intended... :)

Kind regards

Cuan

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dstorm

Hello Angela

 

Thanks for joining the forum. Hope that things will be buzzing now!

 

I also use the words SCARCE, RARE and UNIQUE very often. Yet I ask every stamp collector or dealer to challenge me on the use of it. I do my research to the best of my ability.

 

I believe that a lot of sellers on BidorBuy are simply inexperienced when it come to determining the scarcity of stamps.

 

For instance, a used Great Britain Queen Victoria / Edward 10 Shillings stamp with good colour, full perfs, a light CIRCULAR town + date cancellation, no surface stains, no crayon marks and no surface rubs can be considered as scarce. Yet, the same stamp in sub-standard condition is as common as muck.

 

I have seen the above in an atrocious condition being offered on BidorBuy as an INVESTMENT stamp!

 

The above two paragraphs also hold true for most of the Cape Triangles.

 

Also, some sellers confuse high catalogue value with scarcity. A Union Pound Kings Head in used condition is catalogued at R3 000-00, but it is not a scarce stamp. A South West Africa proof set (less than 50 in existence) could be catalogued at less than R1 500-00. Yet they are rare!

 

A lot of sellers simply do not understand the market!

 

I fully agree with you that there is now excuse for a bad scan. Why use a bad photo when a scan is just a simple? I have made some tests. A bad photo tends to hide imperfections. A good scan tends to enhance imperfections! I feel that a scanner should be used in all cases, except when it is physically impractical.

 

I have spoken to a couple of quality sellers on BidorBuy and it seems as if there is some demand for a voluntarily code of ethics. How it can be applied I just do not know!

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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AngelaBraun

seller with integrity

 

"Hello Jacques, You are probably the only seller on bidorbuy I would believe when the words Extremely Scarce, Rare etc is used. We have known each other long enough to know that this was never directed at you. If anybody knows their stamps, it is you, and you always trade with utmost integrity. I just feel that "New kids on the block" who half the time exaggerate the product and sometimes this can be not only very misleading and almost borders on dishonesty. I use these words very sparingly and if and when I do, I too have done my homework. Trade well my Philatelic Friend you have my support and very best wishes."

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gabriel 1

Scarce, rare, extremeley rare/scarce, estate lot, deceased estate, etc, etc, all words used to encourage sales. Are they scarce?, to you and me maybe not but to a collector in Sabie it could be considered scarce in those circles. Don't get me wrong I agree in principal with all that has been said regarding scarcety and the use of the word, I am just trying to look at it from another angle.

 

I tend to shy away from using all of the words mentioned and would prefer usage of the phrase "not often seen" or "not often offered". Example being Mandela Inauguration cover, is it scarce?, not really, is it often offered?, yes in limited quantities, such that the price has sky rocketed and made it desirable. Less and less will be offered because the market has been confused by the hype and most will once they have aquired theirs hold onto it and hope for the best (my opinion).

 

Sometimes I think that we are missing the point, Philately to me has alot of historical significance and it grieves me to see WW2 covers with all the censor cachets and postmarks etc not even realising R10.00. Nothing against Madiba, his place in history is well deserved.

 

Coming back to the original topic, buyers should not take the sellers word for it, I have really bought alot of junk in the past but I believe that this was due to my own fault. Ask the sellers questions, that is what the facility is there for. Research the item you are interested in, there is enough literature out there. Ask others opinion, at the end of the day it is your hard earned cash that you are going to part with. Make sure you are happy with the item you wish to buy, you will only have yourself to blame later.

 

To end off, not everybody collects the same items or is interested in the same fields. To some a WW2 cover with all the bells and whistles may be the ultimate, to others a pretty cover with birds on it may turn them on and they are prepared to pay for it. This is what makes the world of Philately so diverse and unique in it's own way, it is fun, interesting and will give you hours of pleasure. Most of all, you decide what you want to collect because it is yours.

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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AngelaBraun

Well said Gabriel1, What you have said has validity to a point. My objection to the overused phrases is that unsuspecting, inexperienced buyers are being mislead into believing they are about to/or have purchased and exceptional item worth a fortune. Most people who believe something comes from a deceased estate get the idea that this collection came from someone whose collection covers several decades of collecting very old stamps which is ultimately not always the case in point. I would much rather place a TRUE catalogue value on a collection, excluding all the old stamps which are rusted and broken and then place the collection on offer with a clear conscience. Furthermore I would be honest and state just how much of the material is in good condition and not list it in the hope that nobody notices or doesn't know any better. There are a number of my customers who have complained to me about very bad buys and have stated they just wont buy from that person again. Ultimately, the dishonest seller is doing more harm to himself in the long run, just in order to turn a quick 'buck'. When I raise these issues I hope it is not seen as criticism towards or against any particular individual. I point out issues which are relevant to both buyer and seller and also just as a friendly opinion to assist in trading fairly, openly and more importantly Honestly.

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gabriel 1

This is actually a topic for the camp fire where we can sit around for hours discussing all the various angles, theories, observations etc. I hope that there are new/young collectors out there reading all our different views, it will give them a bit of insight into what they can expect.

 

Talking about the quality of material, I want to add the following. Under normal cicumstances a collector should steer away from items that are creased, have stains, rust, are torn etc. There are however areas of Philately where this does not always have an impact on the value. If you take postal history from the Boer War, covers are 108 years old, often sent to places like Burmuda, Ceylon or St Helena, they were subject to censor, sometimes more than once, kept in poor conditions in tents in concentration camps. To expect these to be in pristine condition is a pipe dream. Not only this but in this area of collecting it is often the origin of the item that is important or the date, eg Wolmerandstad, the date the last mail was sent out before British occupation. Siege postal cancellations, Field postal cancellations and the list goes on. If one looks at some of the items in Birkheads collection, most people would not give them the time of day, covers roughly opened with stains etc, when I look at them the hairs on my neck stand on end. This is where the term unique can be used over and over. I think the most important aspect about collecting is understanding what you are collecting.

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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AngelaBraun

Oh now you are talking :!: But remember I was not talking about the specialist nor the specialised collectors corner. There is always and exception to the rule. I am sitting with boxes of censored and WWII covers which I will not put on BoB because I have realised there is hardly any appreciation for postal History. I am also sitting with beautiful selection of postal stationary in pristine condition which is at the best of time not easy to obtain in pristine condition, and again I am hesitant to sell them because I do not want to fill my pages with items which are not appreciated. I am afraid the average collector on BoB do not collect Postal History not do thy appreciate the difficulty in obtaining material from this period in good condition. In the same vein I refuse to list Homelands and a certain period of South Africa, not because of it been scarce or rare, but again because there is so much of it been offered on BoB and I would rather use the space and time to list something better. I have huge quantities of these 2 aforementioned in UMM, postally used and CTO but in my own time will sell them.

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KWALITY STAMPS

the word scarce

 

Hi Angela, I tend to agree with you, i have been guilty of overusing the word and have now cut back and first checked up with some of the other dealers in the trade on the availability and so on of an item, then only will i use it.

I agree with Gabriel 1's comment, what is unique and scarce for one might not be for another, but then again, how scarce will the word scarce and rare be if it is used so often, buyers will eventually pick up on this and go, "okay, here is another one", and bypass the item. Anyway, I have another bone to pick and will write a seperate post on that.

 

Best

Savo

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AngelaBraun

Hello Savo, It is great to have you post on the forum, fresh ideas, opinions and comments are always welcome for all and sundry to gain knowledge, be informed and debate about. I do not direct any of my opinions and comments at any particular seller or dealer, these are just observations which I trust are informative and will help to keep the Philately section of BidorBuy clean with honest trading. I know many of the items you have listed are exceptional items which quite often I have raised my eyebrows and wished I had that item so continue to list many more and perhaps if they reach an affordable bid I will buy it as I have in the past. Happy Stamping and Trading. Angela

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dstorm

Hello All!

 

Now we have it going!

 

I fully agree on so many points.

 

An item might be common, yet very much in demand and fetch top prices. Yet a really RARE item (not being popular) might get a lower price. This is dealing in stamps!

 

The words “deceased estate†should not be used at all. It has no relevance whatsoever, except to deceive. I can sit for two weeks and make up 50 “estate lotsâ€. I respect my clients. Why lie to them – surely it will be counterproductive in the long term?

 

I do not agree that scarcity is relative. The world has shrunk. Ignorance however is growing! A scarce item is scarce. A common item is common. There are countless philatelic sites to check items out. A Monkey in Tree Variety is not scarce, no matter where the seller resides. A Penny Black with no margins is common, whether you live in London or in Boksburg (my hometown for the last 15 years). An India forgery might be a novelty, but should not be worth more than a hundred Rand or so (let’s say 10 Pounds), regardless of the catalogue value of the genuine item.

 

Homelands Fine Commercially Used Stamps, especially in complete sets (Not CTO) are RARE. More difficult to find than top quality Penny Blacks! Yet would collectors pay more than the CTO catalogue price for it? I doubt it.

 

Coming to WWII postal history, I feel like crying. We are talking George VI items here. I have an item addressed to Jan Smuts with a cachet “Not Opened By Censorâ€. Wouldn’t most buyers prefer an item “Opened by Censorâ€?

 

To use Savo’s words: Anyway, I am now rambling on.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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sheann

Extremely rare, very scarce

 

Hi Jacques

That letter to Smuts marked "Not opened by censor" - please 'phone me when you are ready to list on BoB. I would really like to have it !

Don't want to miss out because I did not know.

 

Yes, far too many items are using these appellations - it is something that has started recently, and the virus spread in no time flat.

Then the "ex deceased estate" started !! Spreading like wildfire it is too.

 

For those sellers who overuse it - I have this to say: I, in common with several other collectors I know of, are beginning to believe that the descriptions containing these words are actually selling rubbish which belongs in the paper bin for recycling, at least that way something benefits. Some sellers use the words in their ads correctly, and here I must also say I agree with Gabriel 1, it is all in the perception of the buyer; when I have a space to fill, I am prepared to pay well.

But, it definitely has an effect on the way a seller is viewed - one also tends to wonder at his/her integrity whe these descriptions are overused by the same seller ad after ad after ad.

 

Same goes for the deceased estate story - if the deceased person's name was mentioned I might even believe it, it could even be a good selling point for some items, if folks knew the person. Other than that I have no interest - sorry, but it is fact, do you know anyone who cries for an hour after reading the hatches, matches and despatches page of the paper once it is ascertained that no one we know has bid this world goodbye ? Unless an important or well known person has gone ? !

 

Yes, I have noticed that some sellers are not listing as much as when I first started buying stamps earlier this year. Can't say I blame them when I see the prices they are getting for good items, as against the prices being paid for the rubbish that gets onto the listings.

 

I agree that the main losers are those who have just started out with the hobby, especially those who can only afford x-amount to build their collections - they are getting taken by sellers who have no scruples. This leaves a rather sour taste in the mouth when you realise that you have lost your money to gain a piece of scrap paper. If anything makes the hobby lose popularity, it will be the actions of such dealers. However, I know that unscruplous dealers (in every field) exist all over the world not only on BoB. An unavoidable fact of life.

 

However, enough of that - I'll be back soon

 

To those from whom I have purchased, Thank you for helping me build up my collection, To the many from whom I have received free advice, and a nudge in the right direction, Thank you, it is all very much appreciated.

 

To all I wish a healthy, happy & prosperous 2009.

 

Sheann

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gabriel 1

It would seem that since "Crazy Wednesday" started a hell of alot of stamp collectors started dying off.

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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dstorm

Hello Sheann

 

Thanks

 

The Jan Smuts item is not for sale. I collect Jan Smuts memorabilia! Should I ever change my mind, please take this as a promise that you will be the first to know.

 

It is so lovely to see the Grande Dame of BidorBuy taking part in the forum. You have said it all in one single post.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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gabriel 1

Hi Jacques

 

Are you back?, If so did you get any stock from the Cape?

 

Gabriel1

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dstorm

Hello Gabriel1

 

Yes, I did get some stock. Yellow Tail, Haarders and Snoek.

Hope I do not get kicked off the forum for being way off topic!

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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korrie

Hi Jacques

 

You mention three items of "stock" you returned with

In keeping with the posted subject could you please specify each items under what you consider "Extremely rare", "Very scarce" or "Unique"

 

Compliments of the season to you and all other stamp forumers (or should that be forumii?)

 

Regards

 

Korrie

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dstorm

Hello Korrie

 

The Yellow Tail is UNIQUE (Head cut off, not detracting from overall appearance or rarity). I admit that the Snoek is common, but it had never been offered on BidorBuy. The Haarders are scarce, perhaps very scarce. Totally Superb Condition. Had to travel all the way to Lana’s territory (Langebaan) to get hold of it.

 

Good thing you did not ask me to describe crayfish.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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kennyn

Hi Jacques

Is this the tight lines web site?

You obviously had a good relaxing holiday because people who are able to send emails on New Years Day have got a serious problem.This is down to a severe lack of golden,peaty,sometimes sweetish,smoky,mellowing liquid known as WHISKY.

I see in one of your previous discussions that you claim to be no expert on Revenues.

I beg to differ,when I have revenues to sell,you are the first person that springs to mind,knowing that your unequalled knowledge will enable me to secure a fair and in most cases above the market price.

This stimulation of the market is extremely important as Revenues are substantially undervalued by the majority of philatelists,but it is reassuring that one such as yourself can see the true value and is prepared to purchase items at prices based on relative scarcity rather than Mr Barefoots opinion.

Slainte Mhath and Happy New Year

Kenny

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gabriel 1

Hi Kenny

 

Good to see that you have taken the time to grace us with your presence on the forum. I agree that Jacques often holds back and is often reluctant to part with his wealth of information. I once witnessed him identify a South Korean flight document, price it and make the sale in one afternoon.

 

Do you still have that Hoofdtlaager cover, if so will see you on 10th.

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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dstorm

Hello Kenny

 

Never a truer word spoken by a Scot(ch)man.

 

It is time that all the stamp collectors know the truth. When it comes to Revenues I am unequalled in overpaying. But they should also know that I am really getting better in selling them as well. I have sold my last Revenue item without making a loss (never happened before), getting back exactly what I paid for it. But I had to use all my skills.

 

The reason why I posted on New Years Day is quite simple – I had time on my hands. I initially set the whole day aside to work out a plan how to make more profit from dealing in stamps. However, by 10am I had it all figured out: Do not buy any Revenues from KennyN and do not sell any Revenues to Gabriel1.

 

Simple isn’t it?

 

All of the best for 2009.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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alloway65

Making a profit.....very simple....pay (a lot) less & charge (much) more!!!!

Have a great 2009.........I am a Scotsman....that likes Scotch!!!

:D

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kennyn

Hi Gabriel 1

Oh yes,that famous afternoon when the nobility of the stamp trade were gathered together and not one of them(apart from the venerable Jacques) had a clue regarding the origin of the aforesaid South Korean flight document.

I shall bring the far less interesting(therefore far more expensive) Hoofdtlager cover on the 10th.

Kind Regards

Kenny

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