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Sollyzar

Appraisals..how can we be sure?

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Sollyzar

The issue about appraisals and appraisal certificates has been addressed under a few other topics, but maybe it is time to have a closer look at this. Let us open a discussion about this as I really think there is a need for gem sellers and buyers to kknow more about the real value of what they are selling or buying. For example, how reliable is a gemval appraisal and when can a "recognised gemmologist" be trusted when issuing an appraisal certificate? Luke, I think you are the expert in this field and I would appreciate your comments on this. Jeff, you also have many years of experience, so let us have your views as well.

 

Regards,

Solly

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motherearth

hi, in my experience, and I have never been to SA(yet), so I can not comment about there. Thailand is without doubt the Gem Capital of the world, there are many labs here and most of of a high standard. The GIA, GRS, and AIGS are accepted Worldwide with the GRS being regarded as one of the best, especially when origin is concerned, with Burmese stones being their specialty. None of the above do valuations!!

 

There are also many smaller labs, with good reputations, which are very useful for gem identification, again they don't do valuations!

 

There is one Lab that I know of in Bangkok, that do valuations along with gem identification, they are an affiliate of a California company, and to my knowledge are good and accurate.I will give an example below of a stone i recently sold

 

the stone

 

http://www.jeffdvs101.com/pics/me02459b.jpg

 

the certificate

 

http://www.jeffdvs101.com/pics/me02429c.jpg

 

you should note that the valuation is a retail one and there is no origin, as a reference, i sold the stone for $400 ... the certificate can be checked online(takes about 48 hours)

 

 

take care Jeff.

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spinel

One might contact Ian Campbell at EGL in Johannesburg or A. Thomas for further information on valuations.

I think valuations have some meaning to the insurance industry.

I think some sellers might be using valuations in the hope of attracting a higher bid for their stones.

 

Afaiac a valuation cannot be done without proper identification and proper identification cannot done by unqualified people.

 

I would imagine the GIA would be pretty annoyed to discover that one in their fold with a diamond qualification has ventured into "grading"

and valuations of colored stones for which they have no qualification at all.

 

Check with the experts, perhaps they might advise that a "valuation" cannot be considered as a certification.

 

If one titles and auction as "CERTIFIED!!!! , double, triple etc. - this would probably be defined as misleading and if deliberate, well..

 

I suggest that it might be safer for sellers to avoid dealing with people of questionable "qualifications"

and certainly avoid those with no recognisable qualifications at all !!!

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Lukeness

Qualifying as a gemologist does not automatically qualify someone as an appraiser. Since the insurance industry is indeed the driving force it would be prudent to check with your particular broker as to what their requirements are, as they often differ. Some even recognise jeweller valuations, some do not.

 

A full appraisal usually requires a certificate from a recognised lab indicating quality, location, treatments etc. The appraisal will be based on the information contain in the gem report as well as visual inspection to insure the actual stone matches it.

 

Few gem labs offer appraisal services as it is seen as a conflict of interests. Some will perform appraisals for the buyers only, in their names, to negate this concern. The appraisal or valuation should not be considered a gem report or certificate, but should accompany one. Usually, there are specialist appraisal service companies who perform this function, independently of the trade labs.

 

Of course "estimated value" claims are a whole other kettle of fish.

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motherearth

take a look at this!!

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/9844119/7_20_CT_CERTIFIED_EQUISITE_BIG_NATURAL_BLOOD_RED_RUBY_GEM_FROM_MADAGASCAR.html

 

in the description the seller claims "his stone was graded and valued at R95040.00 by an independent gemologist (GIA qualified), who is recognized by the jewelry and insurance industry in South Africa. The winning bidder will receive the certificate with the stone."

 

and in the Product Description it is stated that the Ruby is "PROBABLY FRACTURE FILLED"

 

Truly unbelievable!! ,appraised for $10,000 by a so called GIA gemologist who can only state that it is "PROBABLY FRACTURE FILLED" , it saddens me that there are buyers who are falling for this nonsense

 

Jeff.

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AGV Gems
and in the Product Description it is stated that the Ruby is "PROBABLY FRACTURE FILLED"

 

 

Hi Jeff,

 

The appraisal does not supply an indication of treatments, after it was requested by me, so I am not taking any chances and included the wording as pointed out by you.

 

This is the last batch of gems that I will send to this appraiser and would be making use of someone else for future certifications. (Arthur Thomas)

 

 

Kind regards

 

Andries

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spinel

Hi motherearth,

 

Sadly, some sellers have been MISLED by a few charlatans.

 

I am confident that very shortly, almost all sellers would have associated themselves and their auctions with true gemmologists qualified to provide the services that sellers need.

 

There might be the odd seller persisting on misleading potential buyers with "burmese" rubies and I have no doubt these will be dealt with in no time.

 

In the meantime I can only urge sellers to align themselves with proper gemmologists, the wannabees could cost them big !!

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motherearth

hi Andries, thanks for getting involved here, and it is good to hear that you are going to change your approach, the more sellers that do things the right way the better, and the harder it will be for people intent on misleading customers.

 

I agree with spinel, in that if this sort of thing continues, someone is going to wind up in hot water, it has already happened on other auction sites

 

take care

 

Jeff.

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