Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Wild Olive Art

Misrepresentation in selling mass produced art

Recommended Posts

Wild Olive Art

One thing in the art world that makes my blood boil , is seeing people ripped off by unscrupulous " art " sellers peddling Chinese junk and advertising it as original art !

 

Although there are regular sellers of this rubbish on Bidorbuy , I have noticed one particular painting listed on this weeks Crazy Auctions largely because the heading lists this work as an original. " This authentic hand painted fine oil on canvas is in excellent condition. This beautiful art work was magnificently painted by a talented contemporary artist with a great eye for detail. It is signed by the artist. This auction is for the unstretched oil on flat canvas."

 

I feel that to claim these works as " originals" is a total misrepresentation and completely misleads an unsuspecting buyer to believe the artwork has any value.

 

The definition of " ORIGINAL" - .

fresh and unusual;

novel

able to think of or carry out new ideas or concepts

being that from which a copy, translation, etc., is made

the first and genuine form of something, from which others are derived

 

Paintings such as these are mass produced in China and sold in bulk for a few $ a piece.Mass produced paintings are not originals and should therefore not be presented as such ! More often than not the signatures are fake names and do not represent a real artist at all.

 

Surely one should stop to ask why an international " talented artist with a great eye for detail" would need his/ her art to be flogged at a R1 start on an auction site here in SA ?? Surely if the artist had that much talent , their paintings would be sought after in their own countries ??

 

This is very much like the old art student scam in which cheap, mass-produced paintings or prints are misrepresented as original works of art, often by young people pretending to be art students trying to raise money for art supplies or tuition fees.In some early instances of the scam the sellers represented themselves as Israeli art students, but the scam is now international, with instances of Chinese, French, Chilean, and other nationalities posing as art students or dealers in Australia, Canada, China, New Zealand and the United States since at least 2000. The art is often sold door-to-door, bypassing exhibition sites or art galleries.

 

It is sad to see somebody bidding R400 on an utterly worthless painting and I think the truth about this kind of art should be exposed !

 

Have a look at these article here ! China's Art Factories: Van Gogh From the Sweatshop - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

 

Own Original Chinese Copies of Real Western Art! - New York Times

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
qball

Which seller are you referring to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild Olive Art

unfortunately a seller with a very good rating - Jewels4u.

In the past month I have had a battle with a number of these Chinese companies spamming my email in box with photo samples and price lists for bulk orders of this art.

There is nothing wrong with the overall quality of the art , but these paintings from the East are mass produced - they are not originals and buyers should be aware of that when buying the art.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
qball

How do you know that these works are mass produced? or from China? Sorry, need to have more info as this seller only has 3 listings at the moment...

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild Olive Art

Here is the link to the ebay site - the same painting being sold as a new original painting by a seller in Australia !!

Music Night,Original Oil Painting by D. West,24"x20" | eBay

 

I am trying to find the suppliers email and catalogue - unfortunately I deleted the spam from my email and added them to my blocked list but the fact that this painting is being sold on ebay too proves that it is not an original .

 

Another of the paintings sold on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290560366635#ht_2206wt_905

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290563305685#ht_2015wt_905

Edited by Wild Olive Art
add link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild Olive Art

1. The following policies apply to all listings and are strictly prohibited:

 

1.1. Misrepresentation of items including:

 

1.1.1 Creating titles and descriptions that do not accurately describe the item for sale.

 

Why , if Bidorbuy adheres to this policy , is reproduced art allowed to be sold as an original work ???

This painting is a mass reproduction , sold repeatedly on ebay but the seller claims it is an original artwork. It is clearly not. If it was an original hand painted artwork , there could not possibly be hundreds of identical copies !!

 

This is absolute misrepresentation and buyers are being taken for a ride. It's very unethical.

 

Oils - GORGEOUS!!!!! Music Night,Original Oil Painting by D. West,50 X 60 cm for sale in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:39056193)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
qball

In our opinion we don't believe there is intention to misrepresent the item or that the seller is trying to take anyone for a ride.

 

Sellers need to adhere to the policy, we merely try to enforce it, but can't do this without facts and proof to substantiate allegations. We will be contcating the seller in question to investigate further and if need be get the items moved to the correct category.

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild Olive Art

Thank you Cuan.

A reproduction is definitely not an original work of art.

 

The fact that reproductions of all 3 of the paintings listed here on BOB are being sold by an Australian seller on ebay really should be clear enough proof that these are not original works of art.

 

I have given you the links to the same artworks on listed on ebay.

 

As a buyer of art, if I bought what I thought was an original painting and then found the identical artwork listed a number of times for sale on other sites I would be furious. In fact , I would demand my money back.

It is shameful that a buyer is about to pay hundreds of rands for a painting worth virtually nothing ( current bid R 601.00) And yes , I believe absolutely that this buyer has been mislead, whether intentionally or not.

 

There is no way an artwork can be identically reproduced when hand painted and yet the paintings sold here on bidorbuy are exact replicas of those being sold on ebay.

Item on BOB Oils - GORGEOUS!!!!! Music Night,Original Oil Painting by D. West,50 X 60 cm for sale in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:39056193)

Item on ebay

Music Night,Original Oil Painting by D. West,24"x20" | eBay

 

Just yesterday there was conversation on the forum with regards artists not getting good prices for art and the authenticity of paintings.

This is a 1st class example of such a case , where a painting is being advertised and sold as an original artwork but it blatantly is not. This creates mistrust between sellers and buyers.

 

I am sure the sellers intentions were not to misguide anybody and the seller themselves is quite possibly not well informed with regards what constitutes an original work of art and what is a reproduction.

These paintings should be listed under reproductions where they will probably fetch prices closer to what they are worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lilythepink

Following up on my questions to the seller of Oils - GORGEOUS!!!!! Music Night,Original Oil Painting by D. West,50 X 60 cm for sale in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:39056193)

I received the following snarky answer ... if this doesn't make me suspicious, I'm not sure what will:

 

Your question was;

However, yes, there are two identical paintings for sale on EBay so I'm wondering if your picture is the true original or is it one of the two on EBay?

 

Surely as a seller listing a product you need to know for absolute certain that what you are selling is the genuine item? If you do not have a certificate of authenticity or acceptable papers to prove it is an original then you need to be upfront in your listing. Thanks but I will not risk a bid until I feel happy it is the authentic item.

 

The answer is;

I don't need your bid. Goodbuy.

 

"Goodbuy". I don't think so. This seller definitely needs to provide authentication, Cuan. Please could you look into it? thanks

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild Olive Art

It's a crying shame that this has been allowed Lilythepink. These items should have been listed as reproductions. I see the closing bids on the 3 of them were R900 , R600, and R500 and this after both Bidorbuy and the seller were made aware that these are clearly reproductions , listed on other auction sites.

 

I do not believe that the seller was not aware that these are not the original works and her listing is misrepresentation .

 

There cannot be more than one of an original.

 

This is precisely the kind of listing that damages the reputation of true original art listed on this site and those of us who do pride ourselves in offering true originals are the people most affected.

 

Perhaps I should stop wasting my time painting - it's evidently far more profitable to buy out wholesale rubbish from China and sell them as originals on auction sites.:notrust:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mellowred

Excuse my ignorance here WOA - I know nothing about art, I'm just interested in the wording "original oil on canvas"

 

If these were originals, surely the buyer would see that from the canvas and texture. If I read right, there are artists "repainting" artworks - does that mean there are several "originals" of the same painting? Obviously as you say these cannot be identical - even paint by numbers would have some variations.

 

The two paintings you used as examples are identical; it is a fact that at least one of the buyers is going to end up with a print.

 

As ignorant as I am, I can see the difference between an oil on canvas and a print. So, what I don't understand is - what technology is being used to reproduce an oil painting on canvas and make it look real? :notrust: Or are the buyers ending up with a print and just accepting that they did not get what was advertised?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild Olive Art
Excuse my ignorance here WOA - I know nothing about art, I'm just interested in the wording "original oil on canvas"

 

 

If these were originals, surely the buyer would see that from the canvas and texture. If I read right, there are artists "repainting" artworks - does that mean there are several "originals" of the same painting? Obviously as you say these cannot be identical - even paint by numbers would have some variations.

 

The two paintings you used as examples are identical; it is a fact that at least one of the buyers is going to end up with a print.

 

As ignorant as I am, I can see the difference between an oil on canvas and a print. So, what I don't understand is - what technology is being used to reproduce an oil painting on canvas and make it look real? :notrust: Or are the buyers ending up with a print and just accepting that they did not get what was advertised?

 

Hi Mellowred

The wording " oil on canvas " is not the problem here , the problem is that these works are listed as original paintings , which they are not. They may be oil on canvas but they have been reproduced 100x over.

 

The word " original" does not mean hand painted and just because it is an oil on canvas does not make a painting an original.

An original artwork is ONE OF A KIND or it is the original painting from which prints or copies are made. An original is the first and genuine form of something, from which others are derived

Anything copied from the 1st painting is a reproduction and does not carry much value at all and should be listed under reproduced art.

 

In this case , where a painting is reproduced hundreds of times and sold all over the world , the artwork is worth no more than an unsigned print and so to list it as an original artwork is dishonest.

 

I have access to these mass produced works - most art dealers / galleries / frame shops do but most ethical art sellers would not purchase these items and definitely not sell them on as the real deal.

 

These are paintings that are copied in a colour by number sort of process in Chinese sweat shops . You will never see an artists full name on the signature and you will never be able to obtain any info on the " artist" . In fact , mostly the signatures are made up and although 50 different artists may be making copies of the same painting , they all sign the same signature. Furthermore , there is no guarantee that the canvas used is acid free or that artist quality paints are used ( highly doubtful ).

 

Have a look at this article, in particular the last sentence " Wu will never paint an original. If he were allowed to paint whatever he wants, he would soon run out of ideas, the young man admits."

 

China's Art Factories: Van Gogh From the Sweatshop - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mellowred

Hi WOA, I read through the link after posting. Very interesting read too. Now I understand the "technology" used ... it's just plain old fashioned "sweat and grind".

 

I agree that it is unethical to sell these as originals. These should be advertised as exactly what they are - mass produced oil on canvas copies. As a "buy it because I like it" buyer, I would have no interest in the dealer value of a painting, but I would be ticked off if I thought I was buying a one off and found it to be one off a couple of 100,000.

 

Hope you manage to get the listings changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lilythepink

I still wonder over the seller's comment that he/she doesn't need my bid (because I asked a question?)

 

No ethical seller would tell someone that, surely?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
selabi

Hi Wild olive

 

I have to agree there is nothing worse than having to scroll through mountains of chines sweat shop art to find the real art works of artist who have not sold their soul i see in JHB they have this stuff in tons at flea markets and road sides at prices way lower than they sell here.Please get these fakes off BOB or put it in a seprate listing under sweat shop art

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jewels4u

@ Lilythepink

 

The links that OliveArt gave here is the paintings I bought myself on ebay. As you can clearly see from the links I have lost money on the artworks and did not make a dime. Yes, I am not familiar with the art terms as I am actually a jewelery seller and just tried a new direction to feel the waters. I copied the advertisement from ebay as is into bidorbuy and according to me, if something was not a "print" it was an original. This mistake was truly done then out of "not knowing".

 

By last night close to ten o clock, I was very frustrated for two reasons. First of all wasting my money and having to mail these artworks at a loss. And secondly because of community watch mails flying around the whole day and I was terrified they will block me while I had no intention of being dishonest and also having a lot of jewelery on auction and would have had go under if bidorbuy decided to block me at that stage.

 

I know I was nasty and I know my answer was nasty and I am asking your forgiveness for this here on the forum. I was just a bid fed up with the whole issue going on the whole day and then getting your mail just before closing time. But, I know, I was snappy and that was unnessary.

 

Thus, please forgive me.

 

I still have a few paintings coming thatI have already bought and are already sorry that I did, which I will advertise differently, and after that I will stick to jewelery which is at least a topic I know more about.

 

I hope you all understand.

 

Greetings

 

elize

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jewels4u

Afterthought.

 

If you look at the prices the art reached and you see what I have paid for it and you add postage, customs and bidorbuy fees you will clearly see that I have lost R500 on my art expedition. So, if it will make anyone feel better, I am not retiring on my three "misrepresented" artworks sold last night. Hehehe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ATA STAMP CENTRE
@ Lilythepink

 

The links that OliveArt gave here is the paintings I bought myself on ebay. As you can clearly see from the links I have lost money on the artworks and did not make a dime. Yes, I am not familiar with the art terms as I am actually a jewelery seller and just tried a new direction to feel the waters. I copied the advertisement from ebay as is into bidorbuy and according to me, if something was not a "print" it was an original. This mistake was truly done then out of "not knowing".

 

By last night close to ten o clock, I was very frustrated for two reasons. First of all wasting my money and having to mail these artworks at a loss. And secondly because of community watch mails flying around the whole day and I was terrified they will block me while I had no intention of being dishonest and also having a lot of jewelery on auction and would have had go under if bidorbuy decided to block me at that stage.

 

I know I was nasty and I know my answer was nasty and I am asking your forgiveness for this here on the forum. I was just a bid fed up with the whole issue going on the whole day and then getting your mail just before closing time. But, I know, I was snappy and that was unnessary.

 

Thus, please forgive me.

 

I still have a few paintings coming thatI have already bought and are already sorry that I did, which I will advertise differently, and after that I will stick to jewelery which is at least a topic I know more about.

 

I hope you all understand.

 

Greetings

 

elize

HI

You must be complimented in admitting you made a mistake and apologising for the remarks.Not many (if any)of us are able to do that.In my estimate this has raised you to another level.

All the best

NEIL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Miss Jewels

Hi Elize. No, unfortunately retirement will be put on ice for a few more years!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mellowred

Ai Elize, at least when you do retire it will be with a clear conscience ... would be nice to have several million and a clear conscience though hey! :bigsmile:

 

Glad to see you have a sense of humour despite the bad experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild Olive Art

Hello Elize

 

It is a shame that you have been taken for a ride by the seller of these artworks on ebay. Admittedly , they are attractive paintings and I can see how someone not familiar with the art world can believe that these are original works of art , particularly considering the wording in their ad . Unfortunately it is often the case these days,with art being sold on ebay in particular, that unless the history of the painting can be traced as well as an artist biography it is likely that it is a reproduction.

 

Obviously this seller has hit on a good thing , I noticed that she has sold a number of copies of these paintings and ebay , being the size it is , would find it difficult to control the number of items that I am sure are misrepresented there.

It's also quite possible that other countries do not have the same degree of consumer protection that we have here and it's ok for the seller to carry on business without the threat of any legal recourse.

 

I think very often us South African buyers assume that the description of goods being sold is an honest description, we seldom investigate further and this leaves us open to being taken for a ride. Fortunately with the new consumer protection act , as buyers we now have solid legal recourse which means as sellers, we need to be very careful in describing the goods we sell honestly and accurately.

 

I see you sell really beautiful jewellery and I did notice yesterday that you have very good ratings. I am sure that you would not intentionally list incorrectly or try to deliberately misrepresent an item .

 

Thank you for clarifying the issue with us here on the forum , it is much appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jewels4u

Hi Olive Art

 

Yes I have paid a lot of school fees with the jewelery as well. I suppose its part of the business. I am sorry that I have stepped on the real artists toes in the artists section sticking my nose into an area I know little about, although I do love art. But seeing that retirement will not happen this week, I will still be around for a while, but mostly in the jewelery section where I belong (after I have sold my other wrong art buyings).

 

Glad I have met some of you though, I was not really very aware of the forum section untill I have heard I am a celeb around here. Hihihi

 

Will show up here now and maybe get to know who is who a little more.

 

@ ATA STAMP CENTRE, thank you for your kind words, but you know how it is. You go to bed with a headache and feel actually good if you can just at least snap at SOMEONE before you go to bed. But then the next morning the guilt steps in......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×