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South African Numismatic Grading Service (S.A.N.G.S)

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TransEd

As a rookie in the numismatic field I look forward to having my coins graded by South African professionals! Who better to grade our own product then our own people! :)

Keep up the good work SANGS looking forward to doing positive business with you!

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ZARBOY
Thanks Ernesto,

 

I really think if the local grading service is looking at a longer term and credible future, it must get away from Dealer influence. one cannot be player and referee in a soccer game, that also applies to Numismatics.

 

Geejay

 

Hi George

 

Please see the paste taken straight from E Bay Buyers Guide with over 12 000 reads:

 

PCGS - ESTABLISHED IN 1985

One of the top four grading companiesand the one most accepted for "sight unseen" trading. PCGS is part of Collectors Universe, who's primary owners/CEO's are among the nations largest coin dealers. In their "About Us" page they claim to have started the first third party grading system. This is NOT TRUE because ANACS certified it's first coin on June 15, 1972. 13 years earlier.

Nice Holders

Grading is pretty accurate

Does not grade problem coins

Attributes errors a varieties

Highest priced for submissions, especially on errors

Customer service is OK

Submissions are thru Authorised Dealers or Collectors Club Members

Collectors Club Membership satats a $49.95 per year

 

And just to confirm the post. The founder and president of PCGS, David Hall (can be confirmed here PCGS.com - PCGS Secure Plus Service ) is also the owner of one of the largest coin dealerships, David Hall Rare Coins (can also be confirmed on this link http://www.davidhall.com )

 

Now, to get back to what you have preached, I find it very interesting that they also only sell PCGS coins.

 

I cant see a transport business being opened by someone not being able to drive, or a new rugby coach not understanding the game. Imagine a legal firm being opened by an accountant. To be able to put together a grading company, one will need people with years of experience in the numismatic industry.

 

Then also a post showing where NGC receives up to 10 000 coins a day, with only 20 full time graders. With a minimum of three graders per coin, these graders grade around 1500 coins a day. This is tremendous, but Im not sure if it is possible. Imagine the work to verify every single coin? Some of the reasons whe have seen Veldponden being graded as genuine when they are not and even now an 1898 penny, manipulated to a 93 receiving an amazing grade of VF35. If any of the 3 graders understood anything of the ZAR series at all, they would have known it is not a 93, just by holding it in their hands. Just the overall appearance differ so much that a South African expert cant make those errors. Then also determining authenticity, they are relying on our experts to guide them. But when our experts do the same, it is not correct or trusted.

 

Is SANGS superior over other grading firms? NO...... Is their a need for SANGS, eg security, turn around, knowledge and the list goes on??? HELL YES

 

Imagine the comments by everyone if the local butcher started his own grading company without any knowledge of numismatics?

 

It took PCGS and NGC over 25 years to get where they are.... Give SANGS just the slightest chance. And a fair chance too!!!

 

If one wants to be a preacher, by all means, be a preacher. Just get the facts right or rather consider going into politics.

 

Regards

 

Thomas van der Spuy

Edited by ZARBOY

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bok2004

OK the looooong wait is over!!! SANGS WEBSITE IS UP AND RUNNING!!!!! www.sangs.co.za

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jwither
Hi George

 

Please see the paste taken straight from E Bay Buyers Guide with over 12 000 reads:

 

PCGS - ESTABLISHED IN 1985

One of the top four grading companiesand the one most accepted for "sight unseen" trading. PCGS is part of Collectors Universe, who's primary owners/CEO's are among the nations largest coin dealers. In their "About Us" page they claim to have started the first third party grading system. This is NOT TRUE because ANACS certified it's first coin on June 15, 1972. 13 years earlier.

Nice Holders

Grading is pretty accurate

Does not grade problem coins

Attributes errors a varieties

Highest priced for submissions, especially on errors

Customer service is OK

Submissions are thru Authorised Dealers or Collectors Club Members

Collectors Club Membership satats a $49.95 per year

 

And just to confirm the post. The founder and president of PCGS, David Hall (can be confirmed here PCGS.com - PCGS Secure Plus Service ) is also the owner of one of the largest coin dealerships, David Hall Rare Coins (can also be confirmed on this link http://www.davidhall.com )

 

Now, to get back to what you have preached, I find it very interesting that they also only sell PCGS coins.

 

I cant see a transport business being opened by someone not being able to drive, or a new rugby coach not understanding the game. Imagine a legal firm being opened by an accountant. To be able to put together a grading company, one will need people with years of experience in the numismatic industry.

 

Then also a post showing where NGC receives up to 10 000 coins a day, with only 20 full time graders. With a minimum of three graders per coin, these graders grade around 1500 coins a day. This is tremendous, but Im not sure if it is possible. Imagine the work to verify every single coin? Some of the reasons whe have seen Veldponden being graded as genuine when they are not and even now an 1898 penny, manipulated to a 93 receiving an amazing grade of VF35. If any of the 3 graders understood anything of the ZAR series at all, they would have known it is not a 93, just by holding it in their hands. Just the overall appearance differ so much that a South African expert cant make those errors. Then also determining authenticity, they are relying on our experts to guide them. But when our experts do the same, it is not correct or trusted.

 

Is SANGS superior over other grading firms? NO...... Is their a need for SANGS, eg security, turn around, knowledge and the list goes on??? HELL YES

 

Imagine the comments by everyone if the local butcher started his own grading company without any knowledge of numismatics?

 

It took PCGS and NGC over 25 years to get where they are.... Give SANGS just the slightest chance. And a fair chance too!!!

 

If one wants to be a preacher, by all means, be a preacher. Just get the facts right or rather consider going into politics.

 

Regards

 

Thomas van der Spuy

 

I suspect that the vast majority of NGC volumes are US "moderns" and that these coins are NOT being graded by the same people who are grading SA coins.

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Pierre_Henri
I suspect that the vast majority of NGC volumes are US "moderns" and that these coins are NOT being graded by the same people who are grading SA coins.

 

I suspect that the vast majority of NGC volumes are US "moderns" and that these coins are NOT being graded by the same people who are grading SA coins.

 

I wonder how many NGC graders are occupied by SA "moderns" - the Mandelas - I have always thought or rather suspected that with the many 1000s in front of them (the NGC graders) - the coins being all MS for example - could be a case of eeny (MS61), meeny (MS62), miny (MS63) mo (MS64)

 

Hello Sir - your NGC results are at last available ...

 

14 x eeny's

7 x meeny's

4 x miny's

1 x mo

 

Sorry Sir, but no MS65 this time, but send us another 2000 coins for grading and we will sure find a MONK (new name for a MS65 Mandela R5) in there them bunch ...

 

(In my book that actually goes for most grading companies regarding modern coins)

 

Pierre

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republikein

Regarding the cost of grading at SANGS:

 

I see on the SANGS website that it costs R250 to grade a silver ZAR coin. If you presume that it should cost cheaper to grade in the RSA, how much does it cost to send and grade coins averseas by NGC/PCGS?

 

Thus, if you do not inherit your ZAR coins, or do not submit a top-end coin, you are not going to make a profit when grading with SANGS and reselling them on BOB.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

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Cold Sea

Sometimes it's a coin toss

 

Charlize the blonde was writing first year coin grading exams. The paper consisted of only “yes” and “no” answers. Not understanding the subject as well as one should (I know the feeling) she suddenly got an inspiration. She took out a R5 coin from her purse, and started flipping the coin, yes for heads and tails for no.

 

Finished in no time, she sat relaxing dreaming of Hollywood. With five minutes remaining, she frantically started flipping the coin again. The examiner went over to her and asked if she was OK. "Oh yes, I'm fine." Charlize said. "I finished the exam a half hour ago, but I'm going back through it to check my answers!"

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jwither
I wonder how many NGC graders are occupied by SA "moderns" - the Mandelas - I have always thought or rather suspected that with the many 1000s in front of them (the NGC graders) - the coins being all MS for example - could be a case of eeny (MS61), meeny (MS62), miny (MS63) mo (MS64)

 

Hello Sir - your NGC results are at last available ...

 

14 x eeny's

7 x meeny's

4 x miny's

1 x mo

 

Sorry Sir, but no MS65 this time, but send us another 2000 coins for grading and we will sure find a MONK (new name for a MS65 Mandela R5) in there them bunch ...

 

(In my book that actually goes for most grading companies regarding modern coins)

 

Pierre

 

You are correct. The last time I looked at the NGC census, the 2008 Mandela represented over 50% of all SA coins and I would estimate that during the height of the craze 2008 or 2009 to 2010) that they might have been up to 95% of all SA coins submitted.

 

I do not know how long a grader spends on each coin though yes, I would expect it would be less on "moderns" than others. But I do not believe that this is the primary reason for any of the criticisms than have been expressed here or in the past.

 

In some instances, it would be because they overlooked something, in others maybe because they lack the specific knowledge that is mentioned here, though I do not believe that is as important as some here seem to think. In other cases, I think the expectations I have seen expressed here are absurdly unrealistic. The expectation appears to be perfection when there is no reason to expect that from anyone.

 

In comparing the future grading practices of SANGS to NGC or PCGS, if SANGS chooses to have stricter grading standards, they can easily do so - intentionally. Maybe that will work for them or maybe it will not. The only instance that I know where a local grading service might be preferred is with the Canadian ICSS. I know that it is highly regarded but I do not collect any Canadian coins.

 

Personally, I do not think the grading service business is that great of a one to be in for the long haul. The Heritage model is FAR superior to that of NGC or PCGS. The reason for this is because NGC and PCGS (even with the lopsided majority of market share) have a finite population fo coins to grade while Heritage can resell the same coins over and over again and the higher the price, the more money they should make. With grading, most coins are not worth the bother and the percentage of coins that are going to be graded is relatively low. Also, the price of the coin has little or zero impact on revenue streams.

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