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Vanillabean

Items not recieved - Am i responsible?

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Vanillabean

About two months ago i had a gentleman who bought 2 items from me. He requested it to be sent to his work address. I did offer Tracking first time around and he didnt want any. Package never arrived, so he made a second purchase, this time with tracking/signed for. Two weeks later and buyer still havent received that package either. I have stated numerous times to buyer that tracking is only tracked within the UK, When it leaves Royal Mail, and is delivered in SA, we can not track it anymore. Its signed for, so person in SA must sign for package. We are still waiting. Luckily for me the buyer is very understanding and we communicate on a regular basis. I just want to know, Is this the Sellers fault if package was sent both times but did not reach buyer. I have a feeling it might have something to do with sending the package to his work address. (office building) In the event of someone winning an item, i ALWAYS supply proof of postage (Free) - to cover myself. Is this enough? Can i do more? I really want to keep my customers happy. This is also the only person who has not recieved their winnings, all my other buyers have received their items. Any advice would be much appreciated!

Edited by Vanillabean

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kyle2

Was this sent with Royal Mail? If so, the package is gone. Royal Mail has a black hole in their system which consumes parcels destined for South Africa. Multiple threads talk about the problems with Royal Mail.

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Vanillabean

Thanks for your Reply Kyle. Yes it is through Royal mail. My family lives in SA, and i send them packages on a weekly basis through Royal mail, and they always recieve it. (not the quickest postal service ever, but they do get it) Also, the rest of my buyers all got their items. Unfortunately this is the only way to send anything from the uk. Parcellforce couriers are 5x the price of regular postage. I will read the other threads about Royal mail. Thanks!

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lilythepink

I receive packages from the UK via Royal Mail. Some of them take ages to get to me but I have (touch wood) so far received them all!

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Vanillabean

Excellent! Lets hope mine will get there too! Thanks for your reply lilythepink :)

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qball

In terms of the new legislation (the Consumer Protection Act), the risk of the goods remain the seller's until such time as the buyer receives the goods. So even if goods go missing, stolen in the post etc., the seller is still liable for refunding or replacing the item for the buyer.

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Seeds for Africa
In terms of the new legislation (the Consumer Protection Act), the risk of the goods remain the seller's until such time as the buyer receives the goods. So even if goods go missing, stolen in the post etc., the seller is still liable for refunding or replacing the item for the buyer.

 

In this case the seller is UK based. Because they are selling on Bob, does the CPA apply to them?

 

Thanks

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Vanillabean

Thanks gball. So in the event of this happening, the seller is not really protected? This gives me a big knot in my stomach as i only have Royal mail as (afordable) postage method. Some people will just abuse this legislation by claiming they have not received their items, when they have, knowing that the seller will have to refund or replace. I get a printed receipt from the Post Office with the buyers address on it as proof of postage. I always scan & email this document the moment i have posted a package. Surely there must be SOMETHING to protect the seller too? :(

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qball

Not necessarily as SA law does not apply to other countries, but I was commenting generally. :wink:

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qball
Thanks gball. So in the event of this happening, the seller is not really protected? This gives me a big knot in my stomach as i only have Royal mail as (afordable) postage method. Some people will just abuse this legislation by claiming they have not received their items, when they have, knowing that the seller will have to refund or replace. I get a printed receipt from the Post Office with the buyers address on it as proof of postage. I always scan & email this document the moment i have posted a package. Surely there must be SOMETHING to protect the seller too? :(

 

Royal Mail do have tracking options, and if this can be tracked and confirmed that the buyer signed for the goods, then you are protected. Regular mail that does not include tracking will not protect sellers. The law is very clear in this regard unfortunately. So the seller has to ensure the buyer gets the goods. Not too sure it would apply to you in the UK and SA law does not have jurisdiction over UK Law.

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SProducts

Hi I couldnt get clarity on the 2 weeks that had passed, was this about 2 months ago or recently. Most of the time if the customs guys wants an invoice, they keep the parcel and send a postcard. This doesnt happen always and sometimes if sent to a physical address it might not arrive, seems the delivery guys throw them away.

The best way to find out if for the buyer to call 0119616006/7/8/9 or 0860111502 and give them the UK tracking number and they will check their system and if the parcel is in the country they provide a local number and the status of the parcel.

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Gems n Silver

I buy nearly all of my items from the U.K, Royal Mail signed for, & have never lost anything. Usually takes two weeks to arrive at most.

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Vanillabean
Hi I couldnt get clarity on the 2 weeks that had passed, was this about 2 months ago or recently. Most of the time if the customs guys wants an invoice, they keep the parcel and send a postcard. This doesnt happen always and sometimes if sent to a physical address it might not arrive, seems the delivery guys throw them away.

The best way to find out if for the buyer to call 0119616006/7/8/9 or 0860111502 and give them the UK tracking number and they will check their system and if the parcel is in the country they provide a local number and the status of the parcel.

 

1st transaction from buyer was two months ago. He didnt want insurance or tracking on package. I have sent package day after payment was made and i emailed him proof of postage. (A receipt, with postage date and buyer address on it, this is a free of charge service from the Post Office) items won by this buyer must be posted to his work address. (office building) - there is still no sign of the package, and no one knows where it is.

 

2 weeks ago, the Buyer asked me to find him the same childrens clothing he has won the first time around. I got it for him, he bought it on Buy now and also requested insurance. I have explained to him tracking is only within the UK. Royal mail does not offer ANY tracking within SA at all. www.thepostoffice.co.uk If you want international tracking they recommend Parcel force (couriers) which is really very expensive. This is not an option as i want to keep the costs as low as possible for my buyers. Im not very worried about the second package i sent... as i know we can claim compensation if this also gets lost, and i can refund the buyer any time.... what i am worried about is, what protection do i have as seller if someone else is not as understanding as this mentioned buyer? I am sure our postal services (UK & SA) might do this again - and i have no control over it!

 

So my question again: if BUYER does not want insurance, and the package gets lost - how can this be the sellers responsibility to refund/replace? Insurance per pacakage from the uk extra is only R55. But not everyone is willing to pay this. So with or without insurance, i still feel im responsible for any lost packages. it just doesnt seem right :notrust:

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SProducts
1st transaction from buyer was two months ago. He didnt want insurance or tracking on package. I have sent package day after payment was made and i emailed him proof of postage. (A receipt, with postage date and buyer address on it, this is a free of charge service from the Post Office) items won by this buyer must be posted to his work address. (office building) - there is still no sign of the package, and no one knows where it is.

 

2 weeks ago, the Buyer asked me to find him the same childrens clothing he has won the first time around. I got it for him, he bought it on Buy now and also requested insurance. I have explained to him tracking is only within the UK. Royal mail does not offer ANY tracking within SA at all. www.thepostoffice.co.uk If you want international tracking they recommend Parcel force (couriers) which is really very expensive. This is not an option as i want to keep the costs as low as possible for my buyers. Im not very worried about the second package i sent... as i know we can claim compensation if this also gets lost, and i can refund the buyer any time.... what i am worried about is, what protection do i have as seller if someone else is not as understanding as this mentioned buyer? I am sure our postal services (UK & SA) might do this again - and i have no control over it!

 

So my question again: if BUYER does not want insurance, and the package gets lost - how can this be the sellers responsibility to refund/replace? Insurance per pacakage from the uk extra is only R55. But not everyone is willing to pay this. So with or without insurance, i still feel im responsible for any lost packages. it just doesnt seem right :notrust:

 

I dont think the parcel is lost if it was sent 2 weeks ago, there are times when some overseas parcels take about 4 weeks to be in the country after it left overseas. Sometimes it takes about 5 days, if there is a tracking number from overseas when it reaches customs they will assign a new local tracking number for tracking locally.

Let your buyer call customs to check.

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qball

I am speaking for SA sellers - the new law that came into being on 1 April, basically passes the risk to the seller until goods are delivered. Even if the parcel was insured or not insured the seller is still responsible fro refunding or replacing the goods if they were lost or stolen in transit. That is unfortunately the new consumer law to protect consumers in this country. Whether fair or not, this is the reality! :rolleyes::weird:

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Vanillabean

It still sucks - but i really appreciate your comments. Thanks guys!

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JPBon
I am speaking for SA sellers - the new law that came into being on 1 April, basically passes the risk to the seller until goods are delivered. Even if the parcel was insured or not insured the seller is still responsible fro refunding or replacing the goods if they were lost or stolen in transit. That is unfortunately the new consumer law to protect consumers in this country. Whether fair or not, this is the reality! :rolleyes::weird:

 

By that token the seller can then sue SAPO for non delivery under the very same law, regardless of their terms and conditions. That would be my understanding.

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lilythepink

I agree with JP's theory to some degree although I think that the CPA makes it law for the supplier to be held responsible, regardless of any middlemen.

 

Anyone else agree or have another theory?

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qball

Government departments are exempt from what I understand!

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JPBon
Government departments are exempt from what I understand!

 

 

Ah but here there is a loophole as far as I can see, they are a Limited Company, with the SA Government as the shareholder, no where in the Act or the companies Act does it say that any company which has the Government as a shareholder is exempt from any law.

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qball

Will have to wait and see if someone sues and are successful... :whistling:

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JPBon
Will have to wait and see if someone sues and are successful... :whistling:

 

I audited for the state for a while and I know they were warned not to privatize the way the did because it meant they had to comply with all company laws etc. They never listened.

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lilythepink
Will have to wait and see if someone sues and are successful... :whistling:

 

With all the rigmarole (and inevitable cost) involved in suing, we may be seeing doomsday before we see that situation arising for the small amounts of money involved in most transactions! LOL

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Little Miss Muffet
It still sucks - but i really appreciate your comments. Thanks guys!

 

I have had a few situations like this where the internet tracking says an item is stuck in transit at a post office.

When I phone the tracking number that we are given to check the status of a parcel, the parcel has been forwarded and lying at the post office it was addressed to .For some reason or other it is not updated on the online tracking.It does not make sense that the online is differant to the person checking its status on the phone.

I would have thought we are both checking the same online tracking

Sometimes the slips sent out by the post office get lost in the postmans bag and the person therefore never receives it.It is important for buyers to check the tracking with the post office and not wait for a slip to arrive.

Oh! I see this is an overseas thing.

Edited by geewhizz

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Vanillabean
I have had a few situations like this where the internet tracking says an item is stuck in transit at a post office.

When I phone the tracking number that we are given to check the status of a parcel, the parcel has been forwarded and lying at the post office it was addressed to .For some reason or other it is not updated on the online tracking.It does not make sense that the online is differant to the person checking its status on the phone.

I would have thought we are both checking the same online tracking

Sometimes the slips sent out by the post office get lost in the postmans bag and the person therefore never receives it.It is important for buyers to check the tracking with the post office and not wait for a slip to arrive.

Oh! I see this is an overseas thing.

 

Yep - im kind of in a pickle about the shipping, tracking etc from the UK. Anyways, as a seller we can only try and get as much info as possible to help us seal the deal and that both parties are happy. I have notified the buyer to check with his post office. I will also call customs again tomorrow to see if i can find anything there.

 

Thanks!

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