Thank You Pierre Henry

[PtaCoinsCollectables 10]

Hi To all that Love Coins!

 

I would just like to mention, Thank & Congratulate Pierre for his invaluable contribution with his new ZAR BOB - Price Catalogue.

 

I am sure this will be an invaluable piece of compiled information for both Collector's & buyers alike...and that for just R50.

 

Here is a link to Pierre Henry's Listing :

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/37673882/ZAR_COIN_CATALOGUE_Actual_BoB_Prices_FIRST_ZAR_ISSUE_EVER.html

 

Regards

Clinton

PtaCoinsCollectables

[colour02 10]

Hi Guys

 

I would like to ask the following, will this catalogue be updated frequently with new prices paid for a coin. Secondly there is also a lot of private sales going on that BOB would not know of, so those prices should also be taken in account. I know it is difficult to get that information. I would also like to know if a coin sold for 50k this year and a similiar coin sells next year for 45k will prices be adjusted accordingly. In the past it was known that ungraded coins was bought for a bargain, the coin will then get graded and sell for 20%-30% less than what the next individual want's for his coin.

This will obviously affect prices. Hopefully these prices will be taken in account with a pop report.

 

Your input will be appreciated.

 

Colour02

Edited May 17, 2011 by colour02
spelling error

[Pierre_Henri 25]

ZAR Coin Catalogue

 

Hi Guys

 

I would like to ask the following, will this catalogue be updated frequently with new prices paid for a coin.

 

Yes it will - the stats are drawn every day.

 

Secondly there is also a lot of private sales going on that BOB would not know of, so those prices should also be taken in account. I know it is difficult to get that information.

 

I have no information on private sales - I only take into account what I actually can "see" selling on Bid-or-Buy

 

I would also like to know if a coin sold for 50k this year and a similar coin sells next year for 45k will prices be adjusted accordingly.

 

Yes, if sold on BoB, the price values will be adjusted accordingly.

 

In the past it was known that ungraded coins was bought for a bargain, the coin will then get graded and sell for 20%-30% less than what the next individual want's for his coin.

 

I do not understand your point - who is the "next individual" in your example and why would the price drop by that margin?

 

Whatever, I can only capture what I see - and that is the selling prices of graded ZAR coins on Bid-or-Buy everyday.

 

Regards

 

Pierre

[colour02 10]

Pierre

 

Good luck with this, my opinion it won't work.

Reason I say this is simple: Finest known coins cary a premium, the market can't give this coin a value only the coin can give the market a value.

Secondly we all send our coins for grading to NGC AND PCGS. This means we take a third party grading, no influance from SA, so we should take in account prices paid for coins on other auction houses aswell.

 

And I have seen higher prices paid for these items on these auction houses.

 

Regards,

 

Coulour02

[Pierre_Henri 25]

O Boy, what a day ...

 

Pierre, Good luck with this, my opinion it won't work.

 

It is not suppose to “work” or not to work - it reflects the selling prices of ZAR coins on Bid-or-Buy. There are no right prices or wrong prices or good prices or bad prices. I repeat, it ONLY reflects the selling prices of ZAR coins on Bid-or-Buy.

 

Reason I say this is simple: Finest known coins cary a premium, the market can't give this coin a value only the coin can give the market a value.

 

Huh?

 

Secondly we all send our coins for grading to NGC AND PCGS.

 

No, we do NOT all do that.

 

This means we take a third party grading, no influance from SA, so we should take in account prices paid for coins on other auction houses aswell.

 

Yes, we should, but that is not what my catalogue is about, for the third and last time, the catalogue ONLY reflects the selling prices of ZAR coins on Bid-or-Buy.

 

And I have seen higher prices paid for these items on these auction houses. Regards, Coulour02

 

Then maybe you must sell your items there.

 

Regards

 

Pierre

[colour02 10]

Hi Pierre

No need to ge so defensive, What is say is my opinion, I respect your input in to this so please try to respect my opinion.

I have 1 Point to share. Your catalogue will give buyers the benefit of not paying more for a item than what the last one sold for. This will affect prices by not going up in the market for coins. Guess what it will affect you aswell.

 

So please tell me where do you get your coins graded?

 

Regards,

 

PS I do sell most of my coins else where, You will be suprised with the prices I'm getting.

[EEND 10]

Sterkte Pierre.

[Pierre_Henri 25]

Dankie Neels - ek het dit nodig!

 

Terloops, ek stuur die opgedateerde weergawe eersdags aan.

 

Groete

 

Pierre

[Lukeness 10]

@ colour02

I think it's quite clear that was has been put together is a factual reference guide to give buyers or sellers a good idea of the average going prices of a given coin. Nothing more, nothing less. This could be useful for a number of reasons but it it up to whoever has it to utilize it effectively.

I don't even think opinions can come into this (unless you are actually disputing the contents of the document). It is what it is. If you have no use for it, then don't buy it.

[qball 12]

Mr Fivaz a.k.a colour02 - not sure what your agenda is but I would ask that you read the forum rules. I think the only reason you are here is to stir trouble, as you have done in the past... just MY OPINION!

[colour02 10]

Hi Cuan

 

My intention is not to stir trouble at all, All I ask is to allow me to comment on a discreet manner.

There is so much to offer from my side. I have no agenda. I do appologise, please accept.

[qball 12]

The product sold by Pierre is simply a list of prices fetched on auction on bidorbuy, nothing more nothing less. What you the purchaser does with it is their business. It does not purport to be anything else, so other auctions, auctions sites, private deals have no relevance. It is simply a list of what coins sold for what price.

 

Let's keep to the topic and discuss the issue, not the poster or user concerned.

 

Thank you

[dennrein 10]

Great idea!

 

As long as there is no "list prices of ended auctions" function on BoB, the list will certainly come in handy. Is an edition also planned for Union coins? I'd be in straight away.

 

By the way, does anyone know whatever became of Mr. Urizzi's Coinguidesa.com plans? The site's been online for a while but nothing seems to be happening there.

 

Regards

dennrein

Edited May 19, 2011 by dennrein

[Invinci 10]

Hi All

 

I have been reading the thread for a while now, and up to this point have found no reason to comment.

 

As you have said the site is "live" only for testing reasons to confirm the sites functionality and integrity. These include functions such as the "my portfolio", credit card acceptance, Verisign SSL and privacy policies. We have purposely not advertised or launched website yet so that the system is working perfectly so that this can take the industry into the future. As they say in order to build something that will last one cannot take shortcuts.

 

You must understand that our market values are based on over 35 000 sales to the market value of over R50m, across a span of online and physical auction sites. Plus, our online graded price guide is DYNAMIC as it reprices daily, which means that all sales of all graded South African coins DYNAMICALLY adjust our price guide DAILY.

 

Furthermore, this market value data is only our BRONZE level subscription offering, as our SILVER and GOLD packages included much much more, such as 40 years of book values, mintages, documented and estimated smeltings, graphical comparisons, buy and sell indicators and theoretical prices per grade.

 

In addittion to this 1500 coin images and a "my portfolio" section to price your coin portfolio on a daily basis, plus integrated population reports from NGC and PCGS, monthly newsletters and guides to investing/collecting coins, you will slowly see why this project has taken so long.

 

We are not taking long because we are intending to mess everyone around, we are taking longer than expected because we want to do it right the first time.

 

The conceived CGSA concept is one of a complete overhaul of the coin industry as we know it. Coming from a banking and financial service background, I see the potential of coins as an investment vehicle going forward, for collectors and investors alike. However none of this will be possible to take the coin industry out of the so called "dark ages" until collectors and investors have a transparent pricing model with up to date education material and resources.

 

I hope I have not digressed from the original topic of the post, and no bad feelings are intended hereto.

 

We are planning to officially launch July 2011/August 2011.

 

Regards

Danilo

[PtaCoinsCollectables 10]

So once again Thank you Pierre

 

Hi Everybody

 

This thread was to Thank Pierre for hard work, His catalogue is FOR BOB ONLINE PRICES ONLY.

 

We all know where are other auction houses and ebay with different prices that get fetched.

 

Thats not the point , this is only for BOB prices over 2 years.

 

Perhaps someone should do auction houses and ebay fetched prices for us... FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS .

 

I doubt someone will try as it is a massive job.

 

So once again Thank you Pierre for the hard work and your contribution to South African Numismatics.

[geejay50 10]

Well done Pierre,

" Anything that is complex , is not useful and anything that is useful is simple" That saying applies to your grades versus prices Pierre. It was the lifelong motto of Lt General Mikhail Timofeyevich Kalashnikov (born 1919) the man who designed the well known AK-47 Rifle. He did add that he would rather have designed something that would help farmers with their work like a lawn mower.It was the Germans (WWII) that drove him to inventing a better assault rifle to protect his country.

Its the first time we have had a grade versus price guide based on actual sales on public auctions. The old style Hern catalogue pretended that the American grading system did not exist except for a few referrals in the later editions of isolated sales.

Its hard work to do all the coins in such a useful format but you have shown the way by tackling ZAR. Not perfect but definitely much better than nothing and appropriate to what many see as a recent correction in prices.

Geejay

[Pierre_Henri 25]

Coin Collecting for Dummies ............

 

Well done Pierre,

 

 

Its the first time we have had a grade versus price guide based on actual sales on public auctions. The old style Hern catalogue pretended that the American grading system did not exist except for a few referrals in the later editions of isolated sales.

 

Its hard work to do all the coins in such a useful format but you have shown the way by tackling ZAR.

Geejay

 

Geejay, I am in two minds about this whole issue.

 

I have made a comparison between the BoB ZAR coin prices realized in the last 18 months vs. those stated in the last Hern (2011), van Rensburg (2003) and Krause (2006) catalogues - granted that they differ in publication date of almost a decade - but the results just blow my mind - there is actually NOTHING to compare in a strange sense.

 

Lets pick the first ZAR coin on my list being the 1892 Penny in XF (Extremely Fine Condition) vs Herns latest publications ...

 

Hern = R4000 (2010)

Hern = R4000 (2009)

Hern = R2375 (2008)

 

Compare that against the Bid-or-Buy average selling price of the last 18 months R700 in XF40 and R800 in XF45 for GRADED coins. Now compare THAT against Hern's value of R4000.00 in the XF (or EF)

 

Subtract the NGC or PCGS grading costs of R300 (+) and then you sit with a value of R400 to R500 for a EF 1892 Paul Kruger Penny against the catalogue value of R4000.00

 

I am sticking my neck out here - but whomever is paying R4000.00 for a 1892 ZAR Penny in EF condition (graded or not graded) will have his or hers fingers so badly burned, that they will probably opt for collecting sea shells or cut out pictures of Lady Di in the 1990s issue of "Die Huisgenoot" for the next hundred years ...

 

I am very serious - do your home work before investing in coins

 

Kind regards

 

Pierre

Edited May 23, 2011 by Pierre_Henri

[Patricia_Gert 10]

Hi Pierre and fellow collectors,

Yes, I agree “investing” in coins can be a minefield because of so many conflicting prices. Adding further complexities in the mix is also the diverse grading standards.

It is well known that Hern does have a very high grading standard, e.g. if Hern grades a penny as EF, chances are NGC will slab it as AU55 or even AU58 – this does partly explain the price disparities but not completely, as an 1892 AU58 penny will sell on Bidorbuy for half (or even less) than the R4000 EF cat value.

What is interesting too is that the price disparities, in most instances, are much less for the real high grade coins. In my opinion, this is mostly (but not exclusively) due to supply and demand, where the scarcer a coin, the higher the demand and higher prices are achieved. In the same breath the 1892 penny is fairly common, even up to the low MS grades, that’s why higher prices are not achieved for this coin.

Also a factor that needs to be considered, the publisher of the catalogue is a coin dealer, he therefore does have a vested interest in “inflating” the prices of coins. This is not a unique situation as the same thing is occurring through the world and in other collectable areas, e.g. philatelics too. However, the increase in catalogue prices of ZAR coins in the last few years is simply not sustainable as it is impossible for anything to double in price every 1 to 2 years, like has been the case for the catalogue prices of some ZAR coins. Furthermore, the recent recession also did affect coin prices, simply because most collectors have seen a decline in the real purchase power of their disposable income.

All this, in my humble opinion, just add to the value of the catalogue you published as it will give collectors (especially new collectors) an indication of the “real” selling prices of the ZAR coins in an open market. Furthermore, the fact that you do not primarily deal in graded ZAR coins also add subjectivity to the catalogue as you had no vested interest in inflating prices.

 

Kind Regards

Gert