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gabriel 1

Varieties on Single stamps

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Why is it that the SACC allocates a catalogue value to some varieties as a pair, when the variety in question appears only on one of the stamps. Example, Silver Jubillee Cleft Skull and SACC 144a Boken Knee.

 

In the same vain, why is there a difference in value of Vertical and Horizontal pairs?

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Horizontal vs Vertical

 

Hello Gabriel 1

 

I am reluctant to reply, knowing that I will contradict myself, but here we go.

 

The matter of single stamps vs pairs is a dealer’s dream! Why sell the collector one stamp when you can sell him two – and add a handsome premium to the final price as well?

 

But it is the collector who dictates what is in demand.

 

Regarding the vertical pairs, there are at least three theories (there might be many more) why horizontal pairs are more in demand or scarcer than vertical pairs.

 

One: The post office clerks used to (and apparently still do) tear the stamp from the sheets from top to bottom, starting on the right hand side of the sheet. Thus, if the client asked for 2 Ten Shilling stamps, he automatically would have received a vertical pair. Thus it seems that horizontal pairs are indeed scarcer than vertical pairs. In the last twenty years I must have handled 100’s of USED London 2/6 vertical pairs. Yet, I only ever had one horizontal pair! The London’s might be an exception, but nevertheless they are a case in point.

 

Two: Due to the format of the Union stamps (and especially the Silver Jubilee issue), horizontal pairs are more likely to split, destroying themselves over the years. Believe me, this theory holds a lot of water.

 

Three: Horizontal pairs fit better into stockbooks / all the pre-printed albums only have spaces for horizontal pairs. Thus most collectors automatically prefer the horizontal pairs.

 

And finally, most collectors prefer horizontal pairs simply because most catalogues and also most dealers make it clear that they should only collect horizontal pairs. A couple of month’s ago I had two 3d “Smoking Ladiesâ€. One was in a normal horizontal pair. The other one was in a vertical pair, part of a Bottom Marginal strip of 4 (proving the vertical position of the variety). Guess which item got the higher price?

 

I really hope that other collectors / dealers / philatelists would give their opinion on this matter.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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Hi Jacques

 

Thankyou for you in depth reply, all your explanations make sense and I am sure will enlighten alot of collectors out there. I believe that theories such as these should be published or at least included as foot notes in the SACC, this would give clarity to any collectors just starting out and would possibly save them money.

 

Any other input into this subject by other collectors would be welcome.

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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1952 Union handbook on horizontal versus vertiical pairs.

 

Hi Gabriel, i was going through the 1952 Union handbook last night and came across an interesting sentence, in the explanatory notes on page vi, point 5, the heading PAIRS, they state, and I quote, "In the opinion of the editors, the time has now come to regard the horizontal and vertical pairs as of equal value."

I thought that this was an interesting point and am wondering when did they change it and why did they change it?

In relation to your querry, i personally think that someone after the variety wouldn't mind if it was horizontal or vertical, they would want the variety and a normal stamp to compare with, it always looks good in a collection to have both. I could be wrong.

Maybe Jacques can fill us in after he gets back from the drinking holiday he regularly goes on, (lucky guy).

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Hi Savo

 

56 years later and the values are still not the same, and I believe will never be. I think that at this stage of the game there is too much money to be lost if the cat vals were to change. Obviously the pair would not be as scarce as before. Probably it was the dealers that rejected the 1952 suggestion that both vertical and horizontal pairs should be equal. I think that even today dealers would not recognise vertical pairs as equal and would continue to trade as is.

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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I agree but then again, a variety is a variety

 

Hi gabriel, I agree but then again, a variety is a variety.

I was going through my vaireity collection this evening,a mixed bag of goodies, some were on single stamps, some as vertical pairs and some as horizontal. To use a 20th century catch phrase, at the end of the day. If someone collects varieties, and depending on the scarcity of it, i don't think they would mind in how it came, as long as they had the vaiety. We go to some lengths to get that stamp we want and sometimes pay way over catalogue, just for that one. I suppose it goes to the concept of supply and demand as well as scarcity. It would be interesting if someone did a variety catalogue including the amounts printed, that would definetly shake things up abit. What do you think?

 

Anyway, must go before i ramble on too much, have a good auction adnspeak to you soon.

 

best

Savo

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Check out Hans100 post on Admirals, nice printing shift

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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Hello Savo, Gabriel1 and all

 

Just back from my holiday. Went straight to shop and worked till 22:30! (Night Shopping). Yes, lucky Jacques!

 

Savo quotes from the Union Handbook: "In the opinion of the editors, the time has now come to regard the horizontal and vertical pairs as of equal value."

 

Gabriel1 states: “Probably it was the dealers that rejected the 1952 suggestion that both vertical and horizontal pairs should be equalâ€.

 

I have the biggest possible respect for the different editors and contributors to the different Union Handbooks. They were all exceptional, competent and dedicated Union experts and brilliant philatelists. But they were not dealers!! A dealer can only sell what the collectors wants. He can price an item at whatever price, but it is the collector / buyer who decides whether he is prepared to pay the price or not. Just because the editor of the Handbook believes (very rightly so in my opinion) that vertical pairs equal horizontal pairs, does not mean that the collector would not rather prefer a horizontal pair. I have in my stock a couple of used VERTICAL London 2/6 pairs (see my separate post). Would anybody be prepared to offer me 25% of catalogue? I hope so, but think not. The collector is stating that he / she is preferring a horizontal pair. The same holds true for (amongst many others) the Unhyphenated 4d Roto Upright Watermark, the Hyphenated Roto 10/- and the Screened 5/- (all fine used).

 

It is the collector and not the dealer who treats the Vertical Pairs with contempt. The dealer would not even list it, whether on BoB or by auction catalogue, knowing that to make a sale, they should rather list (and recommend) the Horizontal Pair.

 

I am suffering from PVS (post vacation stress). So please react with restraint.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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Hi

 

Jacques, there has to be an argument for the monetary issue. I agree that the value is dictated by the market and what collectors are prepared to pay but are these not seasoned collectors?. We start off by building a collection and are guided by the SACC as far as values are concerned.

 

I believe that a collector starts off in a general direction, without much of a plan of what he/she wants to achieve. As we progress we tend to become more specialised and disciplined in our collecting habits. This is when the Cat value goes out of the window and we are now guided by what we want/need and are prepared to pay way over any guide price.

 

My point is, that new collectors not knowing the history would regard both forms of pairs as equal value because of the listed value, how do you explain to someone that a listed value actually is not correct. In time they will understand but by then the money has been spent. I have been through tons of material and I have seen 100's of vertical pairs just waiting for a good home.

 

PVS = PARTY VERY SOON

 

Gabriel1

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Varieties horizontal/vertical/single

 

Varieties horizontal/vertical/single.

 

Hey Jacques, welcome back, hope you had a really good holiday just before the holidays (Byt he way are you going away for the holidays?)

 

Hey Gabriel, how u doing?

 

I still believe that we shouldn's confuse the discussion to the vertical and horizontal debate but rather the variety debate, in theory, most varieties are scarce, rare and unique and so, does'nt that warrent a different type of cataloging altogether. Most buyers start off trying to complete a collection and will then stick to horizontal pairs, but then when they start collecting the missing stamps, which is the variety, does it realy matter which way it is, the variety in only generally on one stamp and not the other. Isn;t that the stamp a collector would want, and if it came attached to another stamp, again, doesn;t matter which way, he will have a comparision stamp with it.

 

Anyway, must go, have a great evening

Savo

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Hello to all

 

(Yes Savo, I am going away for the holidays - Yzerfontein in the Western Cape. But first I will put in three weeks of hard work).

 

Just something to confuse the issue. How many “Monkey in Tree†or “Lake in Africa†varieties have you seen in VERTICAL PAIRS? These varieties are definitely more common as Horizontal Pairs! Possibly because of the position in the sheet?

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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