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geejay50

Scarce Coin Watch

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jwither

A few things I noticed from the census this week.

 

There is a 1947 2/ MS-68 listed in NGC. I wonder if this is a "mechanical error" (label) and actually a proof

 

There is a second XF-45 1931 shilling.

 

There are seven 1892 PL 1D listed now. When I sold mine in 2010, there were either three or four.

 

There are four combined 1933 2/6. Until recently, only two in PCGS.

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Pierre_Henri
A few things I noticed from the census this week.

 

There is a 1947 2/ MS-68 listed in NGC. I wonder if this is a "mechanical error" (label) and actually a proof

 

There is a second XF-45 1931 shilling.

 

There are seven 1892 PL 1D listed now. When I sold mine in 2010, there were either three or four.

 

There are four combined 1933 2/6. Until recently, only two in PCGS.

 

The 1947 2/- that graded MS68 is my coin that I should receive here in Cape Town by Thursday so I haven't seen it yet after it was sent via NCS to NGC.

 

I won't do any more new listings for closing this year on BOB but the coin should be listed for January.

 

Regards

 

Pierre

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jwither
The 1947 2/- that graded MS68 is my coin that I should receive here in Cape Town by Thursday so I haven't seen it yet after it was sent via NCS to NGC.

 

I won't do any more new listings for closing this year on BOB but the coin should be listed for January.

 

Regards

 

Pierre

 

Nice find.

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jwither

 

Heritage has now added an auction description for the gold 6D. in it, they claim that this coin is more desirable than the "Single 9" because of the latters similarity to the "Double 99". I'm not buying I, but I will agree tat my prior estimate is probably to low.

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geejay50

A Veldpond pitches up at "Pawn Stars"

 

Apparently according to my wife, a man came into the Las Vegas Pawn Shop in possesion of an AU55 Vedpond shown last night (20h40 25.11.2014)

 

He wanted R1,000,000 for it and they discussed the history of the coin. As is their custom, they called an "expert" with the name of Allan Coleman from The War Store " over who gave it a value of R250,000 and they offered the owner R220,000. He in turn would not accept less than R500,000 for the coin. He was very unhappy and kept his coin.

 

I was at work and am sorry I missed the program.

 

Any of you catch that ?

 

Geejay

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jwither
A Veldpond pitches up at "Pawn Stars"

 

Apparently according to my wife, a man came into the Las Vegas Pawn Shop in possesion of an AU55 Vedpond shown last night (20h40 25.11.2014)

 

He wanted R1,000,000 for it and they discussed the history of the coin. As is their custom, they called an "expert" with the name of Allan Coleman from The War Store " over who gave it a value of R250,000 and they offered the owner R220,000. He in turn would not accept less than R500,000 for the coin. He was very unhappy and kept his coin.

 

I was at work and am sorry I missed the program.

 

Any of you catch that ?

 

Geejay

 

"Pawn Stars" is broadcast on your end of the world? I have watched this show in the past and actually like it but don't think much of "reality TV" at all. It is disproportionately "dopey".

 

I don't have cable anymore because I dumped it. Don't want to pay for it. But from what I have heard, the whole show or parts of it are staged anyway. Given the things I have seen (supposedly) walk in there, I believe it. in real life, I don't believe people walk into pawn stores with collectibles worth tens or hundreds of thousands of USD.

 

Anyway, interesting episode.

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jcriller

Veldpond

 

A Veldpond pitches up at "Pawn Stars"

 

Apparently according to my wife, a man came into the Las Vegas Pawn Shop in possesion of an AU55 Vedpond shown last night (20h40 25.11.2014)

 

He wanted R1,000,000 for it and they discussed the history of the coin. As is their custom, they called an "expert" with the name of Allan Coleman from The War Store " over who gave it a value of R250,000 and they offered the owner R220,000. He in turn would not accept less than R500,000 for the coin. He was very unhappy and kept his coin.

 

I was at work and am sorry I missed the program.

 

Any of you catch that ?

 

Geejay

 

I saw by chance, and i know the guy who took the coin in, its real and graded AU55 by NGC, he received it when he won the gane show"finding the kruger millions" i think it was called about 3 years ago. As for SA pawn stars the show, its a lot of rubbish.

 

The whole thing is a set up, and a very bad one. the acting is terrible and should be taken off tv, paying for DSTV and watching such nonsense makes me mad.

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Pierre_Henri
I saw by chance, and i know the guy who took the coin in, its real and graded AU55 by NGC, he received it when he won the gane show"finding the kruger millions" i think it was called about 3 years ago. As for SA pawn stars the show, its a lot of rubbish.

 

The whole thing is a set up, and a very bad one. the acting is terrible and should be taken off tv, paying for DSTV and watching such nonsense makes me mad.

 

I think an AU55 Veld Pond is worth more than the amount offered but in all fairness, where is the guy going to sell it anyway if he is E-Bay illiterate in the USA?

 

Pawn broking is slowly but surely a dying business because of the internet – the guys and gals walking into those shops to sell (not pawn) goods over the counter are either old (those few left that don’t understand the internet), or the younger generation which then must be the dumb or dumber or dope heads wanting immediate money...

 

I must confess however, that I am hopelessly addicted to the Pawn Stars, American Pickers, Storage Wars, and the such.

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zarmaniac

Hi Georg/Pierre

 

The show is Pawn Stars SA, and the shop is in Jan Smuts Avenue, Craighall park. You should be able to watch it on Catch up if you have a PVR/Explora, it is on the History channel. I have to agree with jcriller that the show is horrible, some interesting item, but all staged.

According to me the current selling price for a AU55 NGC GradedVeldpond is R220k-R250k.

 

Werner

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Pierre_Henri

According to Hern's latest catalogue, a 1944 1/- graded MS64 sold for R75 000.

 

I assume it was a PCGS graded coin?

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jwither
According to Hern's latest catalogue, a 1944 1/- graded MS64 sold for R75 000.

 

I assume it was a PCGS graded coin?

 

There is no MS-64 or any other MS in the PCGS census at this time I don't have this version but does it actually specify an MS-64?

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Pierre_Henri

Union Shilling

 

There is no MS-64 or any other MS in the PCGS census at this time I don't have this version but does it actually specify an MS-64?

 

Yes, it does.

 

It states that a 1944 MS-64 sold for R75 000, a 1945 MS-64 sold for R60 000 and a 1946 MS-64 sold for R47 000.

 

Where did Hern get these figures from?

 

He also mentions a 1923 MS-66 that sold for R57 000, a 1924 MS-67 that sold for R74 000, a 1927 MS-64 that sold for R144 000 and a 1929 MS-65 that sold for R21 000.

 

Pierre

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jwither
Yes, it does.

 

It states that a 1944 MS-64 sold for R75 000, a 1945 MS-64 sold for R60 000 and a 1946 MS-64 sold for R47 000.

 

Where did Hern get these figures from?

 

He also mentions a 1923 MS-66 that sold for R57 000, a 1924 MS-67 that sold for R74 000, a 1927 MS-64 that sold for R144 000 and a 1929 MS-65 that sold for R21 000.

 

Pierre

 

There are a couple of possibilities for both these errors (which is exactly what they are) and these prices.

 

On the grades:

 

First, it is possible there is a 1944 and 1946 in MS-64 but it is excluded from the census. I don't own that many PCGS coins but several NGC coins I own are excluded from the census in error. However, I have never heard anyone here ever mention that any Union or ZAR coins they own or know of are excluded in error. The other coins you mentioned are in the census.

 

Second, the Hern catalog is in error. That is my pick.

 

On the prices,

 

First, for those confirmed to exist (excluding the 1944 and 1946 above), they could have sold in a private sale which Mr Hern or anyone who contributes to the catalog knows about while I and most others do not. In the past, a substantial minority (if not majority) of the better Union coins sold this way. I sold most of my better coins privately.

 

I presume they did not sell on BoB for these prices or else you would know it. And to my knowledge, they have not sold at public auction either or else one of us would have seen it. I know none of them sold on Heritage and DNW which is where many (if not most) of the better Union coins are sold outside of South Africa.

 

Second, as to the prices, most of them seem too high to me. If these prices are accurate, I believe the buyer got a really poor value if bought this year which is when I presume the sales occurred or supposedly occurred.

 

The 1945 is not worth more than the 1946 in the same grade, even if a 1946 existed in MS-64. It isn't worth more in that grade or any other. Given the census counts, I don't believe it sold for this price either. There are SIX in a 64 and FIVE in a 65, though there may be one or at most a few duplicates.

 

The 1923 might be accurate, though if it is, the seller realized just over 50% from its prior sale on Heritage a few years ago. I believe it sold at year end 2012 and it was a coin I commented on as being overpriced.

 

The 1924 in 67 seems somewhat low, even in this weak market, though maybe not given the results of the Bakewell collection.

 

The 1927 could be about right, though once again given the results of the Bakewell sale, I don't believe it is worth this price either. As with the 1923 MS-66, I specifically commented on a prior sale in this grade (MS-64) when Heritage sold one for about $17000 or almost THREE TIMES an MS-63.

 

The 1929 in MS-65 also sounds about right, though given the census counts and market conditions, I hardly think this price represents compelling value either. I have commented many times that I consider this coin over rated.

Edited by jwither

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geejay50

The 1897 Gold Sixpence Pf63 Cameo Royle Baldwin on Heritage Now

 

I am sure many of you have noticed the above coin.

 

With four bidders the price is standing at $200,000 and is already the most expensive coin ever offered for verifiable public sale in our history.There are just over two days to go.

 

Watch this space :

 

South Africa: Republic gold Proof Pattern 6 Pence 1897 PR63 | Lot #31301 | Heritage Auctions

 

Happy New Year to you all.

 

Geejay

Edited by geejay50

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geejay50

Heritage January 2015

South African Numismatic History was laid down last night when a single coin fetched $329,000 or just over 4,35 Million Rand - this was an NGC Proof 63 Cameo 1897 Gold Sixpence Royle Baldwin Collection with Six bidders (lot# 31301). It is the highest price thus far that a South African coin has fetched in a public auction (the Single 9 has not had a similar verifiable sale). The price includes buyers premium and 14% VAT on import.

 

Other Coins of interest that were sold are as below:

 

Lot 30711 and 30712 both 1892 PF Two Shillings PF63 and 62 respectively both fetched $3995 (R52,829)

Lot 30714 1895 Two Shillings MS62 MS62 $8225 (R108,727)

Lot 30716 1892 Five Shillings MS63 Single Shaft $3055 (R40,399)

Lot 30719 1892 Pond Single Shaft AU58 $16,450 (R217,535)

Lot 30721 1897 Pond MS63 Shared Finest Known $16,450 (R217,535)

Lot 30722 1924 Halfcrown PCGS MS64 $3525 (R46,615)

Lot 30723 1923 Sovereign PCGS MS64+ $3525 (R46,615)

Lot 30728 Southern Rhodesia Proof Set $1645 (R21,753)

 

Lot 31300 1815/6 GQT Ten Pence MS62 $10,575 (R139,844)

Lot 31303 1892 Halfcrown PF64 $4700 (R62,153)

Lot 31304 1892 Halfpond MS64 Stand alone Finest Known $30,550 (R403,993)

Lot 31305 1931 graded Proof Set $32,900 (R435,070)

 

All prices include buyers premium and the Rand amount includes 14% SA VAT on import.

 

The prices fetched are strong in general and reflect strong buyer demand despite a nearly 20% weakening in the Rand since the previous Heritage Auction. We can rest assured that Rare Coins are a safe hedge in these times.

 

The strong price fetched for the Griquatown Ten Pence (5 bidders) is interesting for me as it reflects to some extent an acknowledgement from serious collectors of the unique place this issue has as the first coin made for a group of indigenous people as distinct from the other Patterns made by Lauer that did not circulate.

 

Once again too as with previous auctions , finest known coins like the 1892 Halfpond MS66 stand alone, carry their own price range and there will always be strong interest there. Even the 1897 Pond MS63 as a shared pop1 shows great interest with resultant strong pricing. ZAR gold especially in Mint State remains the blue chip of our numismatics.

 

Geejay

Edited by geejay50

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jwither

Geejay,

 

In my opinion, most of the Heritage prices were not strong though maybe you think they are because of current market conditions and the exchange rate.

 

The price on the unique 1897 gold 6P was more than the $150,000 to $200,000 I thought it would fetch but this is in contrast to the nearly $200,000 for that NGC 1892 PR-65 RB penny a few years ago. A coin I might add which I thought was grossly over priced but which several others here apparently didn't think so.

 

The unique 1897 bronze 6D failed to sell as did the 1929 proof set and the 1938 proof 2/6. The latter coin for about the same price as I paid for mine (in the same grade) almost EIGHT years ago..

 

The price on the 1931 proof set was strong in ZAR terms but its apparent foreign buyers don't think it is worth this price because it they did, they could have paid closer to the $48,000 a comporable set on Heritage fetched a few years ago. Even as a USD buyer, I still think this set is overpriced and won't be interested in buying it except at much lower prices. The unsold 1939 is a better value.

 

Another coin with a particularly weak price was the 1977 Rhodesia half cent. At about $1100 for an MS-64, this is 33% less than the AU-55 realized a few years ago.

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Pierre_Henri
... failed to sell as did the 1929 proof set ...

 

What 1929 proof set?

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jwither
What 1929 proof set?

 

It was a typo. Should have read 1939.

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thetopshop

Hi from the me. I have tried to do a bit of research on this coin but to no avail. It is a divus augustus pater apparently. It weighs 16.5g

Any ideas on it and value?

001.jpg.763beb3e1e1c55cbd53fb3012235a47e.jpg

002.jpg.ac1e42e9bd31d659e0bc5a3259c39fc5.jpg

 

Thanks

Warren

Edited by thetopshop

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I N Collectables

Hi All,

 

Haven't seen one of these for a while, can anyone guess the grade correctly?

 

Regards,

Mohammed

58f5a752440ef_19482.5shillingsrev.jpg.ad445138407f6320eb4c381f71c79959.jpg

58f5a7524e294_19482.5shillingsobv.jpg.229caea2a7927542a1bde32a6b38a10e.jpg

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CapeCurrencyCoin

From what I can see in pics,Looks like a 63.

Best case scenario,if graders were feeling generous, 64 or if they were feeling a little conservative,62,but I would say(based on what I can see in pics) that its a typical 63.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5335[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5336[/ATTACH]

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Pierre_Henri

I wood guess a Ms63?

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KahlilG

MS62, MS63 on a lucky day.

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jwither

Here is an example of why prices are not congruent with what the majority in your country apparently want. Below is a link to a 1946 2/ NGC AU-55 which closed yesterday on BoB for a paltry R900 or about $75. By way of comparison, I paid R6000 about 18 months ago for an AU-58. I think this coin might be a little generously graded (hard to tell but maybe actually an AU-53) but regardless, it is certainly a scarce coin and worth more than this price. Whoever bought it got a great deal as opposed to the prices I have highlighted for better MS and proof coins which were absolutely awful values.

 

Two Shillings - 1946 SA Union Silver 2 Shilling NGC Graded AU55 | EXTREMELY RARE | Hern's Price UNC: R20 000 | was sold for R900.00 on 8 Mar at 21:32 by EWAAN Galleries in Johannesburg (ID:176811209)

 

As I have said before, until collectors in your country show more interest in a coin like this one, the prices of most Union (and ZAR) aren't going anywhere.

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I N Collectables

Hi All,

 

Thank you for all the replies, it is indeed an MS63. It is the first one that has come into my collection in about 7 years.

 

regards

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