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geejay50

Scarce Coin Watch

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ALJADA
NO DOT AFTER DATE UNION PENNIES

 

Hi Folks,

 

Recently I chanced upon a really attractive raw 1948 Penny that did not have a dot after the Date on the Reverse.

 

There are only two other Years that have varieties which do not have dots after the Date namely 1940 and 1942 (so far???).

 

Looking at grading figures they are all much rarer than the variety with dots although the 1940 Penny has the most coins without the Dot graded (about 11).They come in different colours too, Red Brown and Brown with a two Red coins graded from 1948.

 

Jan recently described a 1938 Shilling without a dot after the Date. That is the first Silver coin with such a variety.

 

You sometimes find what you look for if you know what to look for.

 

If we keep looking, we might find some more?

 

Geejay

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3046[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]3047[/ATTACH]

 

Hi Georg,

 

You are incorrect when you state that the 1938 Shilling is the first silver coin with such a variety. My journals from late 2006 & 2007 list 3 particular silver 'no stop after date' varieties namely:

 

1930 Threepence

1932 Threepence

1942 Shilling

 

The journals also list a 1929 1/2P 'no stop after the date' variety and other than the 1938 & 1942 Shillings with this variety I have a 1940 Shilling with such variety. I have added a few pictures below. Thank you.

 

Cheers

Alex

357741_120418043942_DSC00440.jpg.293cfcffe05cb0c68ff98d070cbcae63.jpg

357741_120418043942_DSC00445.jpg.58079e290ef512180250d4e844b77979.jpg

357741_120418043942_1942_1S_NS.jpg.e83192007c5ac02c65496f9b485a81ba.jpg

357741_120418043942_1929_HP_NS.jpg.6af83d6784ad603bbada0509b8a5dc89.jpg

DSC00436.jpg.d70ebce5c7f332e3848931d1071e0ec3.jpg

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geejay50

Hi Alex,

 

Thanks a lot for your input. Have any of the no dot silver coins been sent for grading?

 

Georg

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cheetah11

Is this coins rare or not and also the value?

victoria.jpg.4bbdbc0af4b19e89cee344a85805a00f.jpg

1pfenning.jpg.0631b11574bb55fd3fe0c8d9236a1162.jpg

58f5a73264646_2phenning.jpg.0d59f56aab8e1c19fc470494292c207e.jpg

victoria1.jpg.a16bbb523eac6dce82ef510f080e7072.jpg

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ALJADA
Hi Alex,

 

Thanks a lot for your input. Have any of the no dot silver coins been sent for grading?

 

Georg

 

Hi Georg,

 

It's my pleasure. I sent 40 coins to NGC in 2007 requesting that they certify the attributions. The coins all came back MS but without any of the attributions stated on the label. Complete waste of time and money.

 

Cheers

Alex

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ryno4711

Hi Georg

 

Here is pictures of a 1938 1/- "no dot" variety. Any idea on possable grade?

 

Regards Ryno

58f5a732ce568_19381Shillingnodotafterdatereverse.jpg.0be2680524ac807649be36f7592eadee.jpg

P3210078.jpg.5b2631b271adb3c4abb94751e3a00552.jpg

58f5a732c935c_19381Shillingnodotafterdate.jpg.cb4794c90f1aabcbc8c328dd820ebbf8.jpg

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geejay50

Hi Ryno,

 

It looks MS to me and if sent on a separate submission should get the variety attribution. I just got it right with the 1938 6d No KG at NGC.

 

Please see pics

 

58f5a732d8fba_19386dNoKGMS61Rev1.jpg.241deb7f8d20923bf4aa014f3c1f01c1.jpg

58f5a732d3c6d_19386dNoKGMGLogo1.jpg.8b44d43f46a3685f29c62e0bbb31fd8c.jpg

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jwither

I do not know when NGC will agree to attribute a coin as a die variety. But regardless, I do not believe that collecting of Union die varieties is ever going to become widespread or that the premiums on these coins are going to generally be large over the "regular" coin anyway. There are two reasons for this opinion:

 

The first is that most die varieties, whether those listed in Alex's journals or elsewhere, simply do not look that different from the "regular" issue and most people are simply not going to collect or pay a substantial premium for a coin like that.

 

Taking a look at other countries, this is exactly what exists for the most part. In the United States, there are presumably die varieties for almost every single coin since most mintages are and were so large. Yet die variety collecting is only popular with three series to my knowledge: Early American Copper or EAC (large cents and half cents from 1793 to 1857), Capped Bust halves from 1807 to 1836 (or maybe 1839 if the reeded edge type is also included) and Morgan Dollar VAMs. There is also a reasonable collecting interest in other early US federal coinage (also up to about 1836) but I am not aware that the price differences between varieties are particularly large. But that is about it.

 

On other series, the only varieties that are widely collected are those which are listed in a price guide such as the "Red Book". And the primary reason they are listed is because they are NOTICEABLE. Most are not. You would have to get a magnifier or even a microscope to identify them.

 

Examples of such coins include the 1909-S VBD Lincoln cent, 1918-D 8/7 Buffalo nickel and 1918-S 8/7 Liberty Standing quarter. These coins are relatively or moderately scarce (the Lincoln cent common even in absolute terms). There are other varieties which are rare (in this narrow sense) that sell for even greater exorbitant amounts (I believe the 1969-S/S Lincoln Cent is one of them) but they do so only because the series itself is extremely popular. But even here, there must be at least hundreds if not thousands of die varieties in a series such as the Lincoln cent and most collectors have no idea of them, do not care or both.

 

The second reason, which differs from the United States, is that so few collectors even have a full set of the "regular" dates, so it is pointless to attempt to collect all varieties as well. This is definitely true of Union, at least in any better grade. It is similar in some respects to the die varieties listed in my Gilboy reference covering Spanish colonial pillar coinage; the coins I have profiled here before and which most of you know from the "pillar" dollar. I would expect that some collectors (and maybe even "investors") collect the Msxico 8R this way because it is a large and well known coin, but either few or none for the others. Personally, I am trying to collect the Peru and Bolivia minors such as the 1/2R and 1R in AU or MS. I'm not sure there is anyone else on the planet trying to complete this set in these grades. Maybe but in any event the possibility of completing these sets by die variety I see as completely hopeless since I have never even seen many of these coins in ANY grade.

 

So to summarize, I would say that if someone can buy Union (or most other) varieties at a NOMINAL premium, go for it. But not otherwise.

Edited by jwither

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jwither

Since I do not see any comments (no surprise to me) on the recently completed Heritage sale, I will provide them. In a few words, mostly poor with a few exceptions. Poor that is, by those who are perpetually in favor of higher prices.

 

The most glaring and obvious result was that for the second (or even third) time, both the 1892 proof 1/2 pond and pond failed to meet the reserve. They did not receive a single bid because no one was apparently willing to pay the opening price.

 

To those who recall the price of the 1892 NGC PR-65 RB penny which sold for almost $200,000 last year, if the buyer is reading this post, you almost certainly have a huge unrealized loss at this time. I say this because I do not believe anyone can provide one single reason to support that this coin is any more desirable than its gold counterparts, esapecially in the same or near grade. In my opinion, the penny is worth less than both and the 1/2 pond could not even sell at $86,000.

 

I give the same comments to the prior buyers of the 1892 NGC PR-66 CAM 5/ and 1892 NGC PR-65 CAM 2/6. These coins sold for $200,000 and $69,000 respectively. At the time, I stated that these prices were absolutely absurd and I believe the buyers of these coins are also sitting on a huge unrealized loss at this time. In this last sale, the 1892 NGC PR-64 2/6 did not look that different from the other one and it certainly was a VASTLY better buy for $60,000 LESS.

 

Two coins which I believe sold for reasonable prices (weak to others presumably) were the AU-58 1894 and 1895 2/6. The 1894 was a relative bargain at $1150 and so was the 1895 at $1950, though I am not sure how attractive this second coin actually is in hand. The 1894 sold for about 25% of the recently sold MS-61 and the 1895 for about 20% of the recently sold MS-62. I would rather have both of these coins at these prices than their MS counterparts.

 

On the Union side, the most noticeable prices to me were the 1936 NGC MS-RD 1D which sold for $2400 and the 1946 NGC MS-64 6D which sold for about $1000. I consider these prices strong but I believe the buyers overpaid for both. The 1936 is "color rare" but this does not remotely justify a premium of anywhere from six to 10 times what an MS-65 RB would likely fetch when the date is not even really scarce. This has been covered in prior comments by me and others right here.

 

The 1946 is a scarce coin, but it is not four times as scarce as the 1945 which sold for $253 in the same grade. I believe that the 1945 sold for too little and the 1946 for too much.

 

Another price which I consider really weak is the 1950 PCGS MS-64 2/6 which sold in the monthly auction for $632. It might actually be more common than the 1946 6D (there more in the census in better grades) but if so, only marginally and I believe it should sell for more. Just in the last Heritage Signature auction, an NGC MS-65 sold for $2530. As I have asked many times before, is one coin really four times better than the other? The answer is obviously not.

 

Finally, others here might have seen the RSA pattern set. If the mintage was actually 50 and a disproportionate number of them still exist (which should be the default opinion unless proven otherwise), I do not believe the set is worth anywhere near that amount.

Edited by jwither

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Pierre_Henri
On the Union side, the most noticeable prices to me were the 1936 NGC MS-RD 1D which sold for $2400

 

What was the grade of this Penny?

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jwither

It is an MS-65 and it actually sold for $2720 or $2400 plus the buyer's premium. I believe that there are two 1936 RD in the census or at least there were. I have not checked it in awhile and my Collectors Society membership has expired.

Edited by jwither

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Pierre_Henri

Some Comments

 

I cannot comment on the ZAR proof prices as I do not deal in them.

 

Regarding the 1894 2/- in AU58 that sold for $1150 (R9000):- The same grade sold last year on BoB for R13 000 so in light of the downturn in the market, the realized price is so-so and a relative bargain like you have stated. (An AU55 1894 2/- sold for R6300.00 a few weeks ago on BoB)

Regarding the 1895 2/6-:- a AU53 sold for R15,355.00 a month or two ago on BoB, so R15 210($1950) for the AU58 example you are referring to is also a relative bargain. These 2/6- coins of 1895 are scarce – the best one I could track last year on BoB was an AU 50 that went for R10 000 ($1282.00)

Regarding the 1936 NGC MS65 - RD 1D which sold for $2400 (R18 720):-

 

There are 2 x MS64s and 2 MS 65s graded in Red at NGC. In Red-Brown there are 14 x MS64 and 18 x MS65s. If you can sell a MS65RB for R2000 today you will be lucky, so paying 9 times more for a coin that is in color 9 times scarcer might make some sense? But not for me ...

Regarding the 1946 6d in MS64 that sold for $1000 – there are 3 graded at NGC in MS64, 2 x MS65 and 1 x MS66, so the price might have been too high, but nevertheless – MS examples of the 1946 6d have seldom (if ever) been sold on BOB.

Regarding the 1950 PCGS MS-64 2/6 that went for $632.00 (R5000):-

 

An MS63 sold for R6500.00 on BoB last year and I considered that to be a fair price. The NGC Pop stats are MS 63 = 11, MS64 = 6 and MS 65 = 3. Nevertheless, this is a rare coin.

 

Whatever, I have heard a story that a bag full of UNC 1950 2/6- coins were discovered in a Standard Bank branch in Umtata in the Transkei in the 1960s but what happened to them afterwards is unclear. Probably all melted up!

 

By the way – you can still check the NGC stats although your Collectors Society membership has expired. Membership are not needed it seems.

Regards

Pierre

Edited by Pierre_Henri

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jwither

Thanks for the BoB prices. I was not aware of them.

 

Taking a coin like the 1936 RD, it is not valid to draw a correlation between the scarcity in the census and the price in that manner. There is no such proven correlation anywhere or if there is, I would like to see it other than just a haphazard example.

 

The basis of my comment is on the relative appearance of the two coins and not primarily the color or even the grade. I agree with you that R3000 is probably about the most that a RB MS-65 will sell for now. I have one of these and though it does not have a lot of RD, it has multi-colored toning and is much better than most KGV RB that I have seen whether 1/2D or 1D. This coin would probably sell for more than most others of this date in MS-65 RB. If it sold for twice or R6000, there still would be no justification for the MS-65 RD to sell for $2720. Whoever paid that price spent about $2000 for the slab.

 

On the 1946 6D, as I commented in a prior post, I previously owned the MS-66 and one of the MS-65 and I owned them AT THE SAME TIME and BOUGHT THEM (raw) FROM THE SAME SOUCE here in the United States. I know this coin is scarce but I do not believe that I was either that lucky or that smart to buy two of the six higher quality specimens in existence. As I have stated before, there is more reason to believe that there are more outside of the census for many or even most SA (or any other non-US) coins than in it. In this instance, prior to this sale, there is no reason for even most SA buyers, much less non-SA collectors, to have paid any attention to this coin. Most non-specialists in a series go by the mintage and the mintage is not particularly low.

 

In comparing it to a coin like the 1950 2/6, I believe it is more available than most others probably do. But the mintage is low which is why more people will know it is scarce and it is also a much bigger coin which is why, for a given level of scarcity, it will sell for more.

Edited by jwither

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Patricia_Gert

Good day all,

 

On the 1946 6D, in my opinion there is another factor that comes into play here. Like Pierre said:

"Regarding the 1946 6d in MS64 that sold for $1000 – there are 3 graded at NGC in MS64, 2 x MS65 and 1 x MS66, so the price might have been too high, but nevertheless – MS examples of the 1946 6d have seldom (if ever) been sold on BOB"

 

No matter how many ungraded MS examples of this coin still exist, fact is it would have been extremely difficult for collectors to get this coin in high grade MS. The longer a collector have to wait and the more he battles to find a particular coin, the more he will ultimately be willing to pay for the coin to fill that gap in his collection (regardless of mintage and catalogue value).

 

Jwither said he had the MS66 and a MS65 and I am not sure how you disposed of these coins. I own the other MS65, which I acquired raw. This implies that the MS64 sold on HA is the finest example becoming available on a public sale for an extended time frame - which will mostly lead to collectors looking for this coin to be willing to pay more for it.

 

Kind Regards

Gert

Edited by Patricia_Gert

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jwither
Good day all,

 

On the 1946 6D, in my opinion there is another factor that comes into play here. Like Pierre said:

"Regarding the 1946 6d in MS64 that sold for $1000 – there are 3 graded at NGC in MS64, 2 x MS65 and 1 x MS66, so the price might have been too high, but nevertheless – MS examples of the 1946 6d have seldom (if ever) been sold on BOB"

 

No matter how many ungraded MS examples of this coin still exist, fact is it would have been extremely difficult for collectors to get this coin in high grade MS. The longer a collector have to wait and the more he battles to find a particular coin, the more he will ultimately be willing to pay for the coin to fill that gap in his collection (regardless of mintage and catalogue value).

 

Jwither said he had the MS66 and a MS65 and I am not sure how you disposed of these coins. I own the other MS65, which I acquired raw (for some time it has been the finest known pop1). This implies that the MS64 sold on HA is the finest example becoming available on a public sale for an extended time frame - which will mostly lead to collectors looking for this coin to be willing to pay more for it.

 

Kind Regards

Gert

 

I do not know how many of this particular coin is available in "better grades" such as an MS-64. My opinion is not many but more than most others believe, just as I believe it is for most coins, whether from South Africa or elsewhere. To give you another example, the next Cayon auction (listed on Sixbid) lists TWO 1754 Peru one real which is easily a scarcer coin than the SA 1946 6D or any other SA 6D date except probably the 1931. NEN sold an NGC MS-62 (the only one included in the meaningless census for these coins) and I have never seen another one worth buying. These two are AU-MS (raw) though I am not sure whether either or both will grade since I cannot inspect them in person. But the point I am trying to make is that as scarce as this coin undeniably is, the same person probably owns both of them just as I did these 1946 6D and there are probably more out there - somewhere.

 

I am going to attempt to buy both of them and yes, like you stated, I am willing to pay somewhat of an "availability" premium. Some but not a big one. Because there are more collectors of SA coins than pillar minors, the "availability" premium I would agree should be less, but anyone who pays "stupid" money for any coin simply because they want it but it does not come up for sale often better be willing to treat their purchase as a consumption expense and not an "investment".

 

If I am correct in my comments that many buyers have paid vastly inflated prices for many SA coins over the last year or so, then what I expect to see is that the coins I used as examples, most of them will not be available for possibly quite some time. They might not be anyway but these in particular especially because most collectors or even "investors" are probably not going to be willing to take a loss and for the ones I listed in my most recent posts (not the 1946 6D), I expect that it would likely be a big one. That is, if they are "strong hands" and can afford to hold onto them which is not going to be true of all buyers.

 

I'm not sure when you had your coin graded, but your coin is not now and could not have been the finest known 1946 6D in the census because mine were in it first and I sold them over two years ago, in late 2009. A collector in SA whom you probably know bought both of them. At the time I sold them, there was one MS-64 (the one in the Bakewell collection) and no other MS-65.

Edited by jwither

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geejay50

Hi Pierre and Ernesto,

 

A coin not mentioned thus far that was sold for a really cheap price in my view at the same Heritage Auction was an NGC AU58 1939 Southern Rhodesian Two Shilling - it went for $402 with Buyers Premium.

 

With a Mintage of just 120 000 which is the lowest mintage of all the Southern Rhodesian Two Shillings, it has had 9 coins graded at NGC and just 1 (AU53) at PCGS. The AU58 is the unshared finest known Two Shilling at the moment. There is no Mint State coin graded so far. In a past coin list, Brian Hern mentioned that this coin was scarcer than the more highly priced 1946 Two Shilling in his view. The grading figures for the 1946 Two Shilling give 12 graded with 6 in Mint State at NGC and 4 at PCGS (3 Mint State) tend to support Brian's view.

 

I think $402 is far less than what this coin is worth for any coin with such fundamentals.

 

The prices given above for the SA coins are auction prices and should consider another 14% VAT charged on import into South Africa.

 

Geejay

 

 

58f5a735901c8_1946TwoShillingRevSouthernRhodesia.jpg.619edbd797dcd23fb91c9b44b81e3a70.jpg

58f5a73589f6a_1939SouthernRhodesianTwoShillingRevXF45.jpg.dc397b5ece3a58a84888c1c208d14027.jpg

Edited by geejay50

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jwither

I would rather have the Souther Rhodesia 1939 2/ than the 1946 2/ as I have seen many more of the latter. One dealer I know has a "BU" 1939 2/ listed in his latest price list but I am not interested in buying it, even assuming it is still available. Then there are the two others I previously mentioned from a second dealer, one "XF+" and one "UNC". I suspect that both of these latter coins would grade based upon my experience with this dealer and probably in the grades he lsited. The one I see now, maybe. But yes, I agree that $402 is a good value for that coin.

 

Finally, though SA buyers must pay 14% VAT to bring the coins into the country, I would consider that amount an unrecoverable loss in calculating current value because there is no assurance that anyone will be able to get it back upon resale. I sure would not automatically pay it.

Edited by jwither

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Rare NotesCoins

Hi All.

The folowing coin came over my desk a while ago. I havent seen a better condition penny ever before. I send it for grading and it graded MS63BN with a letter to send it back for conservation. It then came back a 1893 MS64 BN penny. I really have not seen such red on a 1893. Just thought ill show it

Regards Morne

 

58f5a73624d10_1893front.jpg.a536261e16d87318db8f571d030692a0.jpg

58f5a7361e2e9_1893back.jpg.6e8b10fe49d89af62bebddb04e5edb42.jpg

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Pierre_Henri

Last night's sales : Gotto stay awake!

 

As many of us do from time to time, I completely forgot to put in my bid last night on two George V Shillings!

 

The 1923 1/- AU53 went for just over R700 while I was more than willing to put in a bid for R1000+

 

The 1929 1/- AU53 went for R2,967.00 and I was willing to go to R3000.00+

 

But no use crying about it now. This is the buying season but then you got to stay awake after 8pm to watch the "ending soon" listings on BoB!

 

Pierre

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jwither

Pierre,

 

You should consider yourself fortunate that you "missed out" on the 1929 1/. It is not a common coin, but even though I will grant that there are or may be duplicates in the census, I do not believe its apparent pricing is consistent with the actual relative scarcity.

 

I have seen it several times in MS (not including listings on BoB at what I would describe as exorbitant prices). In AU, I do not recall. I own this coin as an NGC "AU Details" with the "surface hairlines" notation. Previously, it was holdered by NCS as "improperly cleaned". Regardless, it is a reasonably attractive coin. I bought it ungraded from Tebo Coin here in the US for just under $100 USD about five years ago. It is one of a handful of the scarcer KGV 1/, 2/ and 2/6 that I am "stuck with" in "Details" holders. I have an unrealized loss on most of these but I would rather pay current prices for such a coin than many of those at the ask prices I see, regardless of "investment" potential.

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Pierre_Henri
Pierre,

 

You should consider yourself fortunate that you "missed out" on the 1929 1/. It is not a common coin, but even though I will grant that there are or may be duplicates in the census, I do not believe its apparent pricing is consistent with the actual relative scarcity.

 

I have seen it several times in MS (not including listings on BoB at what I would describe as exorbitant prices). In AU, I do not recall. I own this coin as an NGC "AU Details" with the "surface hairlines" notation. Previously, it was holdered by NCS as "improperly cleaned". Regardless, it is a reasonably attractive coin. I bought it ungraded from Tebo Coin here in the US for just under $100 USD about five years ago. It is one of a handful of the scarcer KGV 1/, 2/ and 2/6 that I am "stuck with" in "Details" holders. I have an unrealized loss on most of these but I would rather pay current prices for such a coin than many of those at the ask prices I see, regardless of "investment" potential.

 

 

You are probably right ...

Here are some sales on BoB of the 1929 1/- over the past 24 months: VF35 = R470 // XF 45 = R722.00 // AU 53 = R1,570.00 // AU 53 = R3,056.00 // AU 53 = R2,967.00 (last night) // AU55 = R6,020.00 // MS63 = R5,550.00

The guy who paid R6,020.00 for the AU55 must probably kick his own backside and the winner of the MS63 (at R5,550.00) should pat his own back.

About 3 years ago, I saw a raw 1929 1/- in a USA dealers list that looked nice to me so I paid 18 USA dollars for it (plus postage). After receiving it, I had it send back to the USA for NGC grading and it returned as a XF45. My total cost was about R550. Today the coin should sell for around R750 on BoB so maybe it was not worth all the trouble?

But that was the best I had for the last couple of years for the 1929 1/- and it surely time to upgrade to at least an AU grade. I know an AU53 sold for R1570 but then another one went for double that and another one in AU55 doubled up again!

From R1,570.00 to R6,020.00 with hardly any grade difference – how on earth does that work?

So I thought R3000 would be a ball park figure for an AU 1929 1/-

Whatever, I lost out but not really with regrets – prices could drop even more and I will be ready (if I can stay awake after 8!)

BTW, regarding your comments, I only buy “details” coins if they are REALLY scarce – like the 1926 Shilling I have in a VF details grade – I rate the scarcity of this coin in VF and better as one of the rarest in the whole Union Sterling series.

Pierre

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jwither

I have several of the scarcer KGV issues in "Details" holders but I did not buy any of them that way. I bought them ungraded and NGC declined to assign a numerical grade. Because I paid relatively low prices for them, it was a risk I was willing to take but financially, it just did not "work out". I sense that most SA buyers are not willing to take this type of risk which is actually the primary reason I was able to buy so many of the coins I have mentioned in my posts so cheaply.

 

Examples of these coins are two (2) 1927 1/ in AU, 1927 2/ in AU, 1925 2/ in XF, 1929 2/6 in AU and 1936 proof 2/6. Most of these coins have "hairlines" but there is nothing wrong with them except that they are likely "dead" money.

 

The only coin I really tried to buy that was already in a "Details" holder was that 1931 AU 6D sold by Heritage a few years ago. I was the runner up on that coin.

 

On the prices you mention for that 1929 1/, I expect that this is actually quite common though maybe the spreads are not quite as wide in other instances. I say this because coins like these do not sell that often even though I think a coin like this 1929 1/ is not as scarce as most others probably believe.

 

The price for the 1929 in MS-63 I think is about right, maybe a little low but not too much. But at about $700 I do not consider it a particularly compelling value. Given the prices I see for so many AU KGV, I doubt I would pay more than $100 to $150 for an AU-53, at this time anyway. This might mean that I will not be able to buy one but since I do not like the coins I have seen in this grade anyway, it does not matter to me.

 

Given the wide variation in prices you describe, what I am going to do is just look to buy coins I like where the competition is really weak, An example of that would be the 1923 2/6 AU-58 which Heritage sold for a paltry $138 a few years ago. That was an absurdly low price for a coin of that scarcity and there was noi justification for it.

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Pierre_Henri

1896 ZAR Shilling – an enigma

 

The 1896 Shilling in higher grades have always fascinated me.

 

If one looks at the mintage figures and general interest in the 1896 and 1897 issues of the ZAR silver coinage, it is usually not very bullish...

 

But the 1896 Shilling is the big exception

 

This coin has not closed yet but look at the interest...

 

Graded Coins - 1896@AU53@SHILLING AT R1 START for sale in Cape Town (ID:65505393)

 

Last year I rated (in my personal catalogue), for example, the AU 58 at R20 000+.

 

Not a single UNC example (that I could trace) have sold on BoB in the last 2 years.

 

Something to keep in mind regarding the misperception that all 1896 ZAR coins in higher grades are plentiful.

 

Pierre

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jwither

The 1896 1/ is a scarce coin in higher grades but I'm not sure than an AU-58 is worth $2500+ USD. The last high quality specimen I saw for sale was a PCGS MS-61 which was sold by a dealer I know here in the US for $1250. I believe it was last year but it might have been in 2010.

 

If you look at recent Heritage sales, they sold an 1895 2/6 in AU-58 for about $2000. I admit I have seen more of this coin in higher grades but I belive that it should sell for more because of its "reputational" scarcity. Also, I would consider it more popular because it is a bigger coin.

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Patricia_Gert

Hi Pierre,

 

I agree on the 1896 Shilling, it is a very scarce coin in higher grades. I have also not saw an UNC example of this coin for sale in the last couple of years.

 

The NGC sensus also reflects the scarcity with only 8 coins graded in MS, 7 in AU58 and 15 in AU55 - which is quite low for a popular series to collect like ZAR.

 

Kind regards

Gert

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Pierre_Henri

1896 ZAR Shilling

 

Hi Pierre,

 

I agree on the 1896 Shilling, it is a very scarce coin in higher grades. I have also not saw an UNC example of this coin for sale in the last couple of years.

 

The NGC sensus also reflects the scarcity with only 8 coins graded in MS, 7 in AU58 and 15 in AU55 - which is quite low for a popular series to collect like ZAR.

 

Kind regards

Gert

 

The figure for the MS shillings for the ZAR series (NGC) is as follows

 

1892 (74 in MS)

1893 (2 in MS)

1894 (19 in MS)

1895 (6 in MS)

1896 (8 in MS)

1897 (197 in MS)

 

Now compared to their mintage figures, the % in MS graded is as follows

 

1892 (0.057% in MS)

1893 (mintage figure probably wrong so no use comparing)

1894 (0.0052% in MS)

1895 (0.0018% in MS)

1896 (0.0018% in MS)

1897 (0.0488% in MS)

 

This tells me the following:-

 

The 1894 date is about 10 times scarcer in MS than the 1892 and 1897 issues when compared to their respective mintage figures. But then the 1895 and 1896 dates are 2.5 times scarcer than the 1894 date when compared to their mintage figures.

 

The 1893 date is obviously, with only 2 MS graded at NGC, the rarest ZAR 1/- date with the 1897 date the most common.

 

The 1895 1/- is the second scarcest but the 1896 is so close in third place that it is actually a neck to neck race for the 2nd place.

 

My actual point is that one usually looks at the 1896 ZAR silvers as “common” coins, but the 1896 Shilling is certainly not that in the higher grades!

 

Pierre

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