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geejay50

Scarce Coin Watch

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PBGold

Speaking of time machines, I don't ask for much, just a measly 15 years. Nothing serious.

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EWAAN Galleries
I was just looking at this listing by Edwaan Galleries ...

Graded Coins - 1874 Burgers Pond Fine Beard NGC XF45 ### Ultra Rare for sale in Johannesburg (ID:59395528)

I was always of the opinion that, with a mintage of less than 1000, the Burgerspond was minted not for circulation purposes, but more as a statement by a fledgling Republic saying “look at us – we are no start-up wannabees – we even have our own gold coins

 

But some of these coins must have circulated – looking at the XF45 grade - alongside the then Victorian British gold Sovereigns for almost 20 years before the ZAR minted the Kruger issues in 1892.

I see on the NGC stats that there is even an F graded, so for some reason, these coins may not have been seen then as “rare” in the years following their issue.

 

Today they are only seen in the collections of the “rich and famous” – but then, a few exchanged hands for only their face value for many years between the impoverished Boers and their trading partners.

Maybe I must invest in a time machine that will take me back to those times and buy up all the rarities, come back, pay back my loan, and stick out my tongue to all of you lucky ones that can afford these stunning rarities ...

Kind regards

Pierre

 

 

Hi Pierre

 

Many Thanks for your comments..... Its EWAAN Galleries :)

 

We have a superb collection of ZAR coins on R1 starts on Bid or Buy....Great opportunity for collectors to get some quality coins and reasonable prices....

 

EWAAN Galleries

Africa's Largest Numismatic Auctioneer

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/954693/EWAAN_Galleries

Edited by EWAAN Galleries

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

Hi Guys,

I was scratching through some of my grandfather's stuff and discovered a small little pouch with two coins, one uncirc blank coin with rim and a 1874 Indian Head 1 cent in EF

I am not sure what blank coin this is.

Width 15.5mm 1.8-2mm thick and it weighs 2 grams

Can anybody please help!?

CSC_0337.jpg.2f31984d323188295cdb00ec696be35c.jpg

CSC_0334.JPG.d556a09ca5879908d1f1d96fee4bb2eb.JPG

CSC_0335.JPG.e84347b11c5ff70e0fece1e526dee4e2.JPG

CSC_0336.jpg.e4e308636decdc6c659cdcabf48d83a0.jpg

Edited by ATOMICSQUIRREL

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kimbo11

Capture.jpg.fbc2a44f9a63936b6e3516a30f21ba71.jpg

 

I think this is one, the blanks i dont have the knolage

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

Hi kimbo,

Thanks for the info,but I have the Indian head covered.

It's the blank coin that's got me puzzled.:shock:

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Pierre_Henri
Hi Guys,

I was scratching through some of my grandfather's stuff and discovered a small little pouch with two coins, one uncirc blank coin with rim and a 1874 Indian Head 1 cent in EF

I am not sure what blank coin this is.

Width 15.5mm 1.8-2mm thick and it weighs 2 grams

Can anybody please help!?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2718[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2719[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]2720[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2721[/ATTACH]

 

Your blank coin does not have the features of a 3 Pence (Tickey) as it is smaller in diameter (15.5 mm vs. 16.3mm) but heavier (2 grams vs. 1.41 grams)

 

Does it look as if its been minted in silver?

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

Hi Pierre,

 

It seems to be a copper/bronze coin.

Def not silver.

 

 

Is it possible that it could be a blank 1C as stated in Hern's cat page 391?

Dimensions and weight is very close.

Edited by ATOMICSQUIRREL

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Pierre_Henri
Hi Pierre,

 

It seems to be a copper/bronze coin.

Def not silver.

 

 

Is it possible that it could be a blank 1C as stated in Hern's cat page 391?

Dimensions and weight is very close.

 

If the rim is milled, it could be the 1970 RSA 1/2c that weighs the same (2 grams) but it is sligtly larger at 16.2 mm. The one cent is too heavy at 3 grams so I do not think it is that. If the rim is not milled it could be the new cent, but I doubt it as its weight is 1.5 grams (and 15 mm in diameter)

 

The edge-milling, metal, weight and diameter must correspond 100% for one to make an educated guess. With blanks it is always difficult.

 

Regards

 

Pierre

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geejay50

VOC Copper Duit in MS

 

Earlier in this posting I mentioned the often overlooked reign of the VOC in the expanding Cape for the years 1652 and 1802 in South African Numismatics. We are talking about 150 years of colonisation that involved considerable trade between the Worlds biggest multinational company at the time and its colonies that included parts of North America,the Cape, Australia, New Zeeland ,Indonesia,India and even Japan.

 

When one looks at the overall condition of Copper Duits on sale , it is very noticeable how poor the condition is in general. Green deposits and environmental degradation are the rule and it remains a challenge for serious collectors to locate an unworn Mint State coin.

 

Recently I chanced upon an MS62 VOC 1794 Copper Duit on the Internet. Grading figures at NGC MS62(4)63(1) - it is the commonest graded VOC Duit so far.

 

Such a coin was minted towards the end of the VOC's reign and is of importance to all the countries colonised in the past.

 

Geejay

 

58f5a72faaeaa_1794VOCCopperDuitMS62BNRev.jpg.2bcb2b0d43a6e05d2b6080bc6a8499b8.jpg

58f5a72f9fb54_1794VOCCopperDuitMS62BNLogo.jpg.20168392457edd1b062e1090230ab298.jpg

58f5a72fa5476_1794VOCCopperDuitMS62BNObv.jpg.cf011d981bd1aa0e41a10a0db267abc3.jpg

Edited by geejay50

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jwither

Geejay,

 

Where exactly are you looking for these coins? I presume that you are referring to the Dutch East India Company and that these are Dutch coins since I know little about them.

 

I believe I might have mentioned to you that Belgian coin dealer and auction firm Jean Elsier can probably find these and other similar coins for you or anyone else. But I would not expect to find them in better grades on eBay or BoB.

 

My opinion from my haphazard observations is that most European coins or at least Western European coins from this period are not really that scarce, even in better grades. Obviously, because I do not follow all of them (only some) and this is a vast field (such as those from the German or Austrian states), some are going to be much scarcer or more common than others.

 

But if anyone looks at auctions on either Sixbid or Heritage, high grade coins from this period or through much of the 18th century are not hard to find at all. Probably the best option is to find a local dealer or auction firm who offers the better material in the specialty you are looking for. So for example, once I found Jean Elsier, I saw that the 1790 Austrian Netherlands Insurrection issues were not nearly as scarce as I previously thought. I see them there regularly (in small number to be sure) but almost never anywhere else in better grades. They are not common, but the number of high grade (AU or MS) survivors probably is not nearly as low as most people probably might think for "old" coins. The same goes for at least some of the silver Spanish cross coinage (issued form about 1620 to 1761) that I now see on Calico.

 

I do beiieve however that copper and bronze coins from this period are or seem to be scarcer than silver or gold, presumably because as the lowest value denominations, they would have circulated the most. This is defintely true generically for the United States and appears to be true for the 1790 Insurrection one Liard. I have an NGC MS-63 BN and have seen a few other MS raw coins at Elsier, but not otherwise.

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geejay50
Geejay,

 

Where exactly are you looking for these coins? I presume that you are referring to the Dutch East India Company and that these are Dutch coins since I know little about them.

 

I believe I might have mentioned to you that Belgian coin dealer and auction firm Jean Elsier can probably find these and other similar coins for you or anyone else. But I would not expect to find them in better grades on eBay or BoB.

 

My opinion from my haphazard observations is that most European coins or at least Western European coins from this period are not really that scarce, even in better grades. Obviously, because I do not follow all of them (only some) and this is a vast field (such as those from the German or Austrian states), some are going to be much scarcer or more common than others.

 

 

Hi Ernesto,

 

Thanks for your interest. I have googled Jean Elsier before and now again without getting to him. The website for VOC coins that is the best in my experience is in the Netherlands itself and goes under the name "rondomons".This website is the only place which advertises the well known "Bonk" and sometimes will sell Catalogues on rare coins.

 

It has coins from the whole world , in country and date order. I must add that the service is excellent - they even will refund you your money if a coin is cleaned and this was not stated before. Unlike ebay where I have been blocked from future bidding by one or two sellers for asking for Paypal refunds on cleaned coins.This may be a good site for some decent South American coins for you.

 

I found the graded Mint State Copper Duit on Northeast Numismatics though and its the second graded one I have found there. eBay has hundreds of copper VOC duits for sale that are almost all ungradable.Rondomons has plenty of Copper VOC duits but they are also either worn or corroded. They do sometimes have decent VOC silver - I once saw a VOC 3 Gulden but it was already sold.

 

Hope this helps

 

Geejay

Edited by geejay50

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geejay50

1938 SIXPENCE "NO K.G." - UNIQUE

 

 

Hello all,

 

A friend of mine sent me the above coin with a view to having it graded at NGC. It is an Unc 1938 Sixpence but without the usual K.G. (Kruger Gray) that is usually found below the right hand petal of the Protea on the reverse.

 

This has not been described before and needs a special variety attribution just like the 1959 Threepence where there is a "No K.G." variety described (10 graded at NGC).

 

Have any of you seen such a coin before? I have looked at a few 1938 Sixpences but all of them have a K.G. present although it isnt always very well struck to be honest.

 

If this is a unique coin, it is of great interest to collectors.

 

Geejay

 

58f5a72fb55a9_1938SixPenceNoKGObv.jpg.6f00ce4163d55f6173c27c8f645d51cb.jpg

58f5a72fb010b_1938SixPenceNoKGRev.jpg.f801b4a0c48c6d04f8b818985efff7e9.jpg

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geejay50

UNDERRATED UNION COINS - THE 1940 SIXPENCE

 

Hello all,

 

This is a coin that elluded me in decent grade until very recently.

 

The fundamentals are as follows

 

Mintage: 1 628 759

 

NGC: 24 coins graded 9 in Mint State (61 to 65 unshared pop 1)

PCGS: Nil graded

 

MS coins are never offered in graded form anywhere in my experience and I was fortunate to find this hopefully MS coin on ebay recently.

 

1940 is not a high profile year in general although the Second World War was in serious action and Britain stood alone in the face of Hitler's onslaught. No Proofs were issued in that year.

 

Geejay

 

 

58f5a72fd456c_19406dObv.jpg.134b2692bbf747af0b71e8e9497a6738.jpg

58f5a72fd97f0_19406dRev.jpg.009d1ddacaae9dbc1700964c4bb038a9.jpg

Edited by geejay50

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4kids
1938 SIXPENCE "NO K.G." - UNIQUE

 

Hi George,

 

In my opinion the absence of the "K.G."on some of the silvers is not a true variety per say. In other words, no specific die or die set had this problem.

 

In the 1959 threepence series I have the following:

 

Coins with only the K and not the G

Coins with only the G and not the K

Coins without KG

Coins where the K or the G is so faint that you can only see it under magnification.

Coins where the bottom of the K is missing and the Top of the G is missing and so on....

 

 

This had led me to conclude that these "varieties" came about as a result of the lettering of the KG in the dies filling up with tiny pieces of silver causing a gradual disappearance of this part of the design in the coin when struck.

 

When one looks closer at coins and get an oppertunity to inspect a few high grade coins for the same denomination in the same year these subtle differences can easily be observed. Needless to say, the more you have of a specific coin in that year, the easier it is to spot the differrences or "varieties"

 

I will look at the 1938 Sixpences later this week and revert back on it on the forum.

 

Jan

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jwither

Geejay,

 

I'm not sure that the 1940 6D is really that scarce either, regardless of the census population at this time. It may be, but there is really no way to know that now.

 

I have probably seen it graded in MS but I just do not remember. I also probably own one in AU or MS raw, but if so, it is not a very good one or else I would have sent it in for grading. I would have to check because I do not have most of my coins with me. In the past, I have owned the 1937, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1946 and 1949 in grades of MS-62 to MS-66. I owned the 1946 in both MS-65 and MS-66 at the same time and I bought them from the same source here in the United States. I sold both of them in late 2009 and do not own any of the above coins at this time.

 

The 1942 I owned four of them in grades of MS-63 and MS-64. i bought all of them as part of a group lot at public auction. On the other dates, I have owned them in various grades but like the 1940, just not in a good enough grade to bother sending them in for grading. Even the 1937 I owned, it was a really mediocre coin for an MS-62. That is the problem with KGVI. A lot of them, even in grades up to MS-63, are not really attractive and most of them are not really worth the bother of getting graded.

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4kids
1938 SIXPENCE "NO K.G." - UNIQUE

 

Good Evening to all,

 

As promised, attached three pictures of 1938 Sixpence coins. The first where there is no KG, the second where the KG is very faint and the last with a prominent KG. Please observe the following.

 

In the first picture with no KG, the petals of the Protea in the back is almost non existent and the two leafs both have underdeveloped parts on the top side on the leafs where sections are completely missing.

 

In the second picture where the KG is very feint, the petals of the protea is underdeveloped and the leaf on the right hand is fading on the top section. Note that these sections that are underdeveloped are actually the lowest part in the design of the coin.

 

The third picture shows excellent detail in the Petals as well as the leafs and the KG is very prominent. Also note the strike error above the date.

 

Another interesting variety is on the Date of this "No KG" variety" is in the date, Note the low set " 3 " in the date of this coin compared to the others. It does appear as if the coin in George's picture and mine is the same low set 3 variety.

 

In the second coin both the 9 and 3 are set lower than the 1 and 8 and one can see the spacing between the 9 and 3 is less than on the third coin.

 

Fact is, besides the differences in what is described here, all three these coins are different date varieties.

 

IMG_0128.JPG.4021e06b92f7da36dceadd6cdb536685.JPG

 

Thank you all for reading.

 

Jan

IMG_0123.JPG.356f317490c99149c56905aa033e1aca.JPG

IMG_0126.JPG.f57c7cb1638a0f6fd6d6703d1d64293c.JPG

Edited by 4kids

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geejay50

Thanks Jan,

 

Your observations are of real interest to all serious collectors. I never thought of tying up the imprint of the Petals of the Protea with the fullness of the KG strike.

 

I must agree with you that what we are seeing is a mere manifestation of different depths of strike that is reflected in the petal imprint extent as well as the intensity and clarity of the "KG" because they are on the same plane.

 

 

Good stuff

 

 

Geejay

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geejay50

The Mule Pattern Penny of the Lauer Group

 

Some years ago , I did some grading at NGC for a friend and amongst a group of Pattern Pennies was a Penny that is regarded as a "Mule" in Hern's Catalogue (Pg 347 T23 1d ) Mintage just 5 .

 

It is so because it has the Obverse strike of the ZAR and the Reverse of the Free State O1 Pattern Penny. Obviously Mr Lauer the die maker used two dies from different Pennies when he struck the coin.

 

It was the only such pattern I have seen and have never seen it for sale.

 

Has anybody else seen one?

 

Geejay

 

58f5a73027e2a_1874T23MulePatternRevCR.jpg.f58d183d1f4f7ea9be1bd0c84b7b7f2c.jpg

58f5a7302315a_1874T23MulePatternObvCR.jpg.b6ae644cabedbe4cb44e4ee48262f75f.jpg

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Pierre_Henri

German East Africa

 

In the Bickels Coin and Medal News edition of May 1967, there is an excellent prize-winning article by Lilian & Stan Kaplan on the Coinage of German East Africa.

If someone is interested in a photo copy of it, please send me a Private Message. Postage will be free.

 

This is also an interesting article that includes the bank notes of German East Africa ...

http://www.thecurrencycollector.com/pdfs/A_MONETARY_HISTORY_OF_GERMAN_EAST_AFRICA.pdf

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Cold Sea
The Mule Pattern Penny of the Lauer Group

 

Some years ago , I did some grading at NGC for a friend and amongst a group of Pattern Pennies was a Penny that is regarded as a "Mule" in Hern's Catalogue (Pg 347 T23 1d ) Mintage just 5 .

 

It is so because it has the Obverse strike of the ZAR and the Reverse of the Free State O1 Pattern Penny. Obviously Mr Lauer the die maker used two dies from different Pennies when he struck the coin.

 

It was the only such pattern I have seen and have never seen it for sale.

 

Has anybody else seen one?

 

Geejay

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2862[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2863[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

Hi Geejay

 

Great reminder. Engelbrecht in “Geld” refers to this issue as a Bastermunt.

 

President Steyn, a law student and neutral towards England, was lobbied around this time to become president of a united Transvaal and Orange Free State. He declined.

 

I wonder whether Otto Nolte and Lauer, in their wisdom, prepared or preemted a mule or “Bastermunt”, based on the political climate.

 

Regards

Edited by Cold Sea

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Mike Klee

Hi Georg,

I have one of these - bought at Kunker Auction 140 in 2008, item number 1518. It is unslabbed. I remember at the time that I was thrilled when I saw it and "twigged" as to its rarity - yes, one of only 5.

Mike Klee

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Mike Klee

Hi Cold Sea,

 

Thanks for the information, which sheds more light on the background of our numismatic history. I never knew this and it kind of adds another piece to the jigsaw puzzle of life.

 

Just one thing: I think you are mistaken about President Steyn - who was the president of the OFS from 1896 to 1902? I think you actually mean President Thomas Burgers, who was president of the ZAR in 1874 and who will forever be remembered by numismatists as the driving force behing the burgersponde and whose face is on South Africa's first gold coin.

Mike

Edited by Mike Klee

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Cold Sea

Hi Mike,

 

My apologies, I actually meant President Brand, president of the Orange Free State, who was a popular figure and was approached in 1871 to become president of the South African Republic (Transvaal) and thus unite the two republics. This was mooted even before by Pretorius if I am not mistaken.

 

Regards

 

Derick

Edited by Cold Sea

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Mike Klee

Hi Derick,

 

No need to apologise and this interesting information is much appreciated.

 

Mike

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Cold Sea

Hi Mike,

 

If President Brand accepted the post of President of both republics, the Burgers pond most probably would not have been minted at this time. Now that would have placed your mule in a different light. Congratulations and happy to know that at least one of these are safe in the country.

 

Regards

Edited by Cold Sea

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