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geejay50

Scarce Coin Watch

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qball

This is the issue - "I have been asked by Baldwins of London to bring to your attention the above auction that will be held in three parts namely: " and "I have also asked them if there is a Sixbid Internet facility to bid as this is also not clear in the Catalogue."

The forum is not here for Baldwins of London to advertise... otherwise I will have to start charging for the free exposure... don't think you can really fault us for not wanting to promote other sites and their auctions ALL the time...

 

Thanks for the understanding folks...

 

 

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geejay50

Hi Cuan,

 

Sorry if I may have impinged on Bob interests by advertising Baldwins' Auction. It certainly was not meant like that at all and I hope your objection was not based on complaints from another party who has personal issues.

 

Most of us will not come near to the money needed to take part in such an auction but it is definitely of interest to serious collectors to know that such coins as the 1929 Specimen Proof Sovereign exist and that a second 1928 Proof Sovereign has also come to the fore. This is Numismatic History being rewritten for us and is what this posting "Scarce Coin Watch" is really about in my view.

 

Does this mean too that we may not report on prices of International Auctions once they have happened to give us a price guide for current bidorbuy auctions?

 

Geejay

 

 

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qball
Hi Cuan,

 

Sorry if I may have impinged on Bob interests by advertising Baldwins' Auction. It certainly was not meant like that at all and I hope your objection was not based on complaints from another party who has personal issues.

 

Most of us will not come near to the money needed to take part in such an auction but it is definitely of interest to serious collectors to know that such coins as the 1929 Specimen Proof Sovereign exist and that a second 1928 Proof Sovereign has also come to the fore. This is Numismatic History being rewritten for us and is what this posting "Scarce Coin Watch" is really about in my view.

 

Does this mean too that we may not report on prices of International Auctions once they have happened to give us a price guide for current bidorbuy auctions?

 

Geejay

 

 

 

Hi geejay

 

No need to apologise. It's not really our interests that I am concerned about as many bob users already bid and buy on other auction sites overseas. It's just that I can't have users advertising other companies (especially if they have been asked to by the other company) - it's kind of free advertising for them and the coin forum is quite busy with lots of interest from local buyers - then where does it stop? I do understand that serious collectors may have an interest in this and will bid on these auctions any way and would probably be aware of these overseas auctions any way through the grapevine.

 

We do not have a problem with prices fetched being posted from auctions that have already closed, as this does relate to the topic, for example Heritage auctions etc. This information is welcome. Just not other auctioneers wanting to get additional exposure for free... :smile1:

 

Thanks for your understanding Geejay!

 

Cheers

Cuan

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geejay50

Hi Cuan,

 

Baldwins has contacted me again and they are really sorry to have provoked this unpleasantness as they are watching this Forum too. They were really looking for any way of contacting the SA Numismatic market by way of National Print Media etc but there just was no easy way - the Bidorbuy Forum has nothing to beat in in the local SA Coin world when it comes to speaking to collectors. Free advertising is not their aim, they will I am sure willingly pay for such a chance.

 

If Bidorbuy could liase with such overseas Auction Houses to pay for highly visible advertising space on Bidorbuy Forum focusing specifically on SA Coins en lieu of their very popular lucrative coin auctions, at least the rare coin market locally will see Bidorbuy as keeping some contact with the International SA Coin Market and both parties can gain.

 

Some collectors may even come back to Bidorbuy to sell their high end coins again. As things stand at the moment, I see the really wealthy collectors awaiting the next overseas auction with very little of really high value being offered locally.

 

Realistically our coins are attracting big sums internationally and for a few reasons their owners choose to sell overseas whether we like it or not. It always has been an International business made more so by American Third Party Grading and the South African Diaspora.

 

My thoughts on a positive note.

 

Geejay

 

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qball
Hi Cuan,

 

Baldwins has contacted me again and they are really sorry to have provoked this unpleasantness as they are watching this Forum too. They were really looking for any way of contacting the SA Numismatic market by way of National Print Media etc but there just was no easy way - the Bidorbuy Forum has nothing to beat in in the local SA Coin world when it comes to speaking to collectors. Free advertising is not their aim, they will I am sure willingly pay for such a chance.

 

If Bidorbuy could liase with such overseas Auction Houses to pay for highly visible advertising space on Bidorbuy Forum focusing specifically on SA Coins en lieu of their very popular lucrative coin auctions, at least the rare coin market locally will see Bidorbuy as keeping some contact with the International SA Coin Market and both parties can gain.

 

Some collectors may even come back to Bidorbuy to sell their high end coins again. As things stand at the moment, I see the really wealthy collectors awaiting the next overseas auction with very little of really high value being offered locally.

 

Realistically our coins are attracting big sums internationally and for a few reasons their owners choose to sell overseas whether we like it or not. It always has been an International business made more so by American Third Party Grading and the South African Diaspora.

 

My thoughts on a positive note.

 

Geejay

 

Hi Geejay

 

Thanks for your post. Unfortunately we do not allow "competitors" or other auction sites to advertise on our site, this is a business decision unfortunately - this will primarily drive traffic away from our site - which relies on users to stay and transact on our site, if collectors wish to sell on our site they will, either way. Whilst what you say may have some validity, we won't be offering advertising to other auctioneers... I do apologise for this. Please convey my thanks to Baldwin's for their understanding.

 

Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated.

 

Cheers

Cuan

Edited by qball

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geejay50

Hi Cuan,

 

Every year Bidorbuy supports the Durban Coin Show by allowing its advertising on this Forum and so far they have not been viewed as "Competitors" looking for "Free advertising" by you.

 

Just like any other extra Bob auction, Bidorbuy derives no income from the Durban Coin Show as these sales are done outside of the Bob system and can be seen as being against its business interests in the same way as Baldwins mentioned above.

 

Should the Durban Coin Show happen again, will the organiser also be prevented from advertising his show on this Forum based on your decision above against Baldwins? British Pounds or Rands , money not coming to Bidorbuy is still the same money.

 

I was allowed also to highlight the hugely interesting Heritage Auction last year without any complaint from Bidorbuy. Why this sudden turnabout now that its Baldwins? It just doesnt make sense.

 

Geejay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by geejay50

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Mike Klee

Hi Cuan and Geejay,

 

Got to agree with Geejay. I know BoB is a commercial site, but numismatics involves being aware of exactly what coins are out there. Auctions are like game-viewing - you never know when you might spot a rhino or leopard, and it sure makes it exciting after looking at empty bushveld for a few hours - so any chance to see a fabled "double nine", coarse beard Burgerspond, or some other numismatic rarity really sets one's heart racing.

Fact is, most of will never be able to afford such a coin - so wherever it appears for sale is, in all reality, it will be something we can just drool over.

 

Will BoB lose sales because of the numismatic community becoming aware of a rival auctioneer's product? I truly do not believe so....

 

Cuan, BoB is a fantastic portal for South African numismatists. The more numismatists become aware of the extraordinary gems out there, the more informed and larger this community will become and - by default - BoB will become the ultimate winner.

 

Mike Klee

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geejay50

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for your support, this Posting "Scarce Coin Watch" was always intended to highlight Numismatic Rarities at a time when a lot of this Numismatic Forum was attracting destructive non Numismatic issues.

 

I have really in my small way tried to stick to the endangered species of really rare Numismatic gems that do not get sufficient exposure but are really of interest to the discerning Numismatist whether affordable or not.

 

In my quest, there are elements who may not like what I do and may be trying to undo what I am attempting. Their identity and reasons are not important but what is important is that we must at all times follow what is verifiably rare in a pure sense.

 

We never really own anything, we are just custodians of our coins for future generations - some money changes hands in exchange

 

Geejay

 

 

Edited by geejay50

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geejay50

THE RARE 1941 SARAWAK CENT

I was asked recently by a friend to send a coin off to NGC which had been found at a flea market in Johannesburg amongst a pile of poor quality coins. It was an uncirculated 1941 Sarawak Cent.

 

The history of this cent is of interest. It was one of 3 million struck and all but 50 coins were lost because of a wartime ? Japanese torpedo that sunk the ship carrying that issue.

 

Sarawak is a small former British Protectorate on the Northern coast of Borneo which up until 1946 was ruled by a Rajah C.V.Brooke under the auspices of Britain.The economy was so devastated by the Japanese Occupation during World War II that Mr Brooke handed the colony over to Malaysia in 1946.

 

1941 was the last year of issue and the Cent from that year Catalogues at $1200 in Unc in Krause 2006.

 

The market value is probably several times that.

 

NGC graded the coin at MS63RB (one of 5 graded RB, 7 graded BN)

 

Geejay

58f5a72dae9a4_1941SarawakOneCentBUObv1.jpg.3be18b5bc12e81073d20740c345784e5.jpg

58f5a72e010b8_1941SarawakOneCentBURev1.jpg.ffe2d13f644ef7689f45a4c68af4a9ca.jpg

Edited by geejay50

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Pierre_Henri

When scarce coins of "lesser" countries are discovered / offered I am always a little bit apprehensive - Sarawak is not one of the most collectable country in the world, but the coin is scarcer than our own SA jewel - the 1931 tickey - so how do one put that (the Sarawak Penny) into perspective?

 

Only on an open auction we will know its true vale ...

 

Mike Klee, if you are reading this, I have lost your e-mail address, but I have the most wonderful of shipwreck coins as a gift awaiting you as a thank you for the XXXX collection ...

Just e-mail or private message me on thsi forum - I am not sure how this works ...

 

Kind regards

 

Pierre

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smdevy

Great find by your friend, probably paid a fraction of the value for it. There are also 5 off these 1941 Sarawak cent coins graded MSRD by NGC, 2 of which are graded 66 being the highest currently graded. A MS66RD was on auction May 2011 in Singapore (Mavin International) and realised $4100. PCGS has graded a total of 6 also (1xBN, 4xRB & 1xRD) The 2012 Krause catalogue list this coin at $2000 in UNC.

 

There are varying stories about this coin regarding the estimate of 50 that remain. Including the sunken ship by Japanese torpedo (on NGC website), the other story states (James Mackay coin digest) these coins were recalled and melted down due to the outbreak of war.

 

It is said the Royal Mint records show 2016000 coins struck in 1941 and 984000 struck in 1942. It is thought that the 1942 coins were struck as 1941 coins as no 1942 coins seem to be in existence.

So my thinking is, it is possibly that coins sent in 1941 were on a ship which sunk, and the balance minted in 1942 were not sent and melted down due to Japanese occupying Sarawak?

 

It is also said that a large amount of their silver coinage were seized and melted down by the Japanese occupying Sarawak and therefore low in numbers.

Edited by smdevy

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qball
Hi Cuan,

 

Every year Bidorbuy supports the Durban Coin Show by allowing its advertising on this Forum and so far they have not been viewed as "Competitors" looking for "Free advertising" by you.

 

Just like any other extra Bob auction, Bidorbuy derives no income from the Durban Coin Show as these sales are done outside of the Bob system and can be seen as being against its business interests in the same way as Baldwins mentioned above.

 

Should the Durban Coin Show happen again, will the organiser also be prevented from advertising his show on this Forum based on your decision above against Baldwins? British Pounds or Rands , money not coming to Bidorbuy is still the same money.

 

I was allowed also to highlight the hugely interesting Heritage Auction last year without any complaint from Bidorbuy. Why this sudden turnabout now that its Baldwins? It just doesnt make sense.

 

Geejay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To set the record straight - bob approached the organisers to advertise the show - in the interests of numistmatics.

 

bidorbuy does this to grow numismatics (so that people are aware of numismatics and coin collecting (good for everyone) - we are also represented at the show and generally speaking, many of the sellers who sell on bob are represented there and we use this as an opportunity to chat to the dealers, meet them and discuss other issues - relevent to bob and numistmatics in general (even though we derive no revenue from it). We all know that there is a lot of trade off the site, and we believe many of these high value coins will never be listed on bob, as those deals are generally concluded off site. The last show in JHB, we had a table and had a lot of interest shown by collectors and new coin buyers and sellers, we used this as an opportunity to educate and inform potential new clients. We also had the Mint auction running at the same time which generated a good amount of interest. It is also an opportunity for us to expose our brand and platform to new buyers and sellers.

 

That is very different from another auction site advertising on our forum. I highly doubt Baldwins would like us advertising at their auctions...?

 

The show is advertised with our blessing and permission, in conjunction with the organisers. It's not necessarily about losing business or sales. Whilst it is nice to know about these auctions, in principle we are opposed to it from a business point of view to allow other auctioneers (no matter the industry) to promote their auctions on our site. What will be next - eBay coin auctions? Whether it's Baldwins or Ebay or Heritage, they are competitors in reality to a small extent. It is very unlikely that Heritage or Baldwins will send traffic from their auctions to our site or promote our site to their customers. So I don't see why they should be allowed to utilise our forum to promote their businesses, because that's what they are doing (regardless of the "numistmatic" argument presented here).

 

Hope that answers the question!

Edited by qball

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jwither

I would be interested to know where that estimate of 50 for the 1941 (H) Sarawak cent came from. Out of curiousity (since I do not collect these coins and have never followed them), I looked at Heritage (which also lists an MS-66RD in 2009) and this reference to 50 estimated survivors is also in there. So where did it come from? Unless there is specific evidence to indicate otherwise, my guess is that it is exactly that, a guess by a collector who is a recognized specialist in this series. It would be an amazing (and unprecedented) coincidence if anyone had such specific knowledge (especially in such chaotic circumstances) to actually know that out of that large of a mintage, that in the vicinity of 50 actually survived.

 

One of the series I collect is the Spanish colonial pillar coinage (1732-1772) issues from Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Guatemala, Chile and Colombia. My Frank Gilboy reference book is the only one (to my knowledge) that covers minors (1/2, 1, 2 and 4 reales) and presumably, is considered "the source" for these coins. Gilboy lists estimated survival rates in what I would describe as a rather unorthodox and inconsistent manner. He states (without specifying his methodology) that these apply to VF or above except for the "scarcest issues" which he also does not define.

 

What I can tell you is this. Since he includes images of many high grade examples for coins that I have never seen anywhere near those grades, he obviously had access to private collections that I (and other collectors) do not. However, I would still say that his opinion is not consistent with what I have seen in my 12 years in collecting the series from auction records (including eBay) and dealer inventory. Some of the coins (such as the 1754 Mexico 8R and 1754/1755 Peru 8R) are a lot more common in higher grades than he thought because hoards have been found. On the other hand, the Bolivia and Guatemala minors have to be much scarcer.

 

Taking Guatemala, the 1758 1R he lists as "Scarce-2" meaning 100-250 estimated survivors. If this is all of them, maybe. But if this is in VF or better (since he is not clear), no way. Heritage sold one VG-10 back in June 2006 for about $600 but it is the only one I have ever seen. NGC lists one MS-66 for all dates but for all of the coins of this denomnination, the 1/2, the 2 and the 4 are almost exclusively in what I would describe as uncollectible condition (either holed, bent or barely recognizeable due to wear).

 

The same applies to Bolivia. The mintage for the 1770 1R is reportedly about 200,000 and he lists the two varieties as "Scarce" (250-500) and "Normal" (500-1000). I might have seen ONE coin in VF or slightly better but the rest were also essentially uncollectible because they circulated extensively for over 100 years.

 

The only caveat to my above commentary is what I wrote here before. It is possible that because these coins are not worth that much money and collectors prefer them ungraded, that there are probably more than I have seen, but unlikely nearly as many as Gilboy claims.

 

With this Sarawak cent, another thing that must be taken into consideration is the high number in the census. NGC lists 17 (mostly MS) and PCGS 6. And yes, for an obscure series and compared to most other non-US coins outside of South Africa, it is high. Though there may be a few duplicates, I consider it (very) unlikely that collectors have chosen to submit a disproportionate number of the estimated survivors for grading. The known rarity and greater value is a partial plausable explanation but not completely.

 

In comparing this coin to one such as the 1931 3D, the best evidence does not support that it is scarcer, even though the latter coin has a reported mintage of 66 business strikes. The census certainly does not support it and the "confirmed" known survivors do not either. I would say that two MS are confirmed (the Dr Mitchell specimen I believe Scott mentioned and the one in the presentaiton set in the UK someone I know handled in person) to which can be added the few in the NGC census and likely a few more by others who keep their holdings private. But I do not see that this comes to 50 because the rarity is much better known and the coin is worth so much more.

 

My opinion is that there are only a few instances where such estimates can or should be considered reliable. Almost exclusively, I would say that this applies to some of the rarest US and maybe English/British coins. The reason for this is that these are generally the only ones where the sales of specific specimens have been tracked over a long period of time. For example, I once profiled the 1878-S half dollar here. It had a mintage of 12,000 and the combined census lists 39 (probably including some duplicates). In two listings, Heritage provides conflicting estimates of survivors, 48 and 60. Whatever the number is, since the coin sells for about $40,000 in the lowly grade of G-4, probably all of the survivors are accounted for when including the problem coins (those without a numerical grade) that have been graded by NGC and PCGS but that are not included in the census.

 

So to conclude, I would say that yes, it was an unusual and exciting find, but probably not as scarce as generally believed.

Edited by jwither

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geejay50

SOUTHERN RHODESIAN 1954 PROOF SET

 

In the beginning of this Posting I did some postings on the coins of our neighbour and how underrated they were.

 

I spent last Christmas in the country and it still does not have its own currency after the hyperinflation around the Zim dollar. US Dollars sometimes in apalling condition - greasy and dirty from much use are used mostly with change given in SA Rands and so the country functions actually quite smoothly. The exchange rate was about R8 to 1 US Dollar. One thing they didnt like to accept was the SA Copper coins , even the 50 cents. I tried this at their rather makeshift "Toll Road control point" which was often only an official seated on a chair by a boom. One can confidently expect an improvement in that country soon.

 

To come back to the currency of what was then called Southern Rhodesia under British Rule, I would like collectors to take note of the really scarce Proof Sets that pop up in overseas auctions. In the latest January 2012 Heritage Auction, there was a 1937 set (mintage 40) that received a lot of interest and a 1954 Proof Set (mintage 20) that also attracted several bids - selling eventually at $5175 inclusive of buyers premium which came to R49,283 after the 14% VAT charged on import.

 

This sounds like a lot of money to pay for a set from a "Lesser known country" . When one looks at who buys Southern Rhodesian Coins internationally, it is interesting to find that they come from countries not usually associated with Africa like China and Russia. There is always interest from the USA and the UK where expatriates may live.

 

The other point of interest to Numismatists in search of the really rare is that this just happens to be the ONLY such set so far graded by NGC and PCGS !!

 

Have any others been seen and not graded? What has happened to the other 19 in the past 56 or so years? Business strikes from 1954 are also regarded as very rare , especially the Two Shilling in Unc and the Penny.

 

Geejay

 

 

58f5a72e06474_1954SRhoHalfcrownPf65.jpg.0e590f6e0a4a0297ab00632fbe9a9346.jpg

58f5a72e0b41d_1954SRhoTwoShillingPf64.jpg.32ca297379f23447ad65f56edb4b19fc.jpg

58f5a72e0feff_1954SRhoPennyPf67RB.jpg.2ed503435a336b64410b44f01728cc40.jpg

58f5a72e148d4_1954SRhoHalfpennyPf66RB.jpg.681eb60ab4ccf4cf0e6bc0576cba4c5c.jpg

Edited by geejay50

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jwither

I did see the 1954 set come up for sale and I have never seen another one. But once again, I would not assume that most of the others are not available.

 

To the question of where are they, the same question can be asked for any number of coins. For example, are we to believe that just because the population reports for most of the South Africa KGV (1926-1936) and scarcer KGVI sets (1937-1946) are far below the recorded mintages that they do not exist? My answer is absolutely not unless there is specific evidence to the contrary. There is no default reason to believe that whoever acquired those coins in the past would generally be so careless as to lose them so that they are no longer available. Most (if not all) owners would have known their scarcity and likely would have paid "big money" for them at the time which means they usually would have tried to carefully preserve them.

 

A comporable set to the 1954 with a mintage of 20 is the New Zealand 1933 which I have also seen exactly once, in a prior Noble Numismatics (Australia) auction. I believe it sold for about $15,000 USD and it was a very good one. Maybe there have been others since 1998 when I resumed collecting, but I am not aware of it. But I would also expect that most (if not all) of these also exist.

 

In the prior posts on these coins, I believe the 1939 2/ was one mentioned. I do not recall seeing this coin before. But the 1954 2 shillings is not that rare to me. It certainly is not common but I have seen it for sale quite a few times (not recently though) and all of them were in high grade (AU or MS). I could have bought this coin in duplicate if I had wanted to do so.

 

In terms of their financial value proposition, I would say that the 1954 set was a reasonable deal at that price given the quality. I say this not particularly because of the mintage of 20, but also because of its availability.

 

The two sets that come up for sale more often (1932 and 1937), I do not see as compelling based upon the most recent prices . For the 1932, a mintage of 496 where most or at least a high percentage likely still exist (regardless of the census numbers) is not scarce at all. It is no different than the 1950 SA proof set and it costs more given the number of coins in each set. The three sales I see on Heritage in January 2012 were for $1092, $977 and $2530 (graded). I have never heard anyone on this forum write about what a compelling value the SA 1950 proof set is and I do not believe it is either.

 

The most recent sale of the six coin 1937 set at $9200 I consider excessive. It is a better quality set than I recall seeing before but to put this price into perspective, the 1936 SA set with the same mintage sold for $13800 in the same auction. (The grades are lower but there are eight coins and two of them are cameo.)

 

I'm not sure how available most of these coins actually are. But in looking at the Heritage archives and when I have seen them up for sale in dealer stock (which is occassional but hardly rarely), I do not see that most of them look particularly cheap given their origin. Reasonably priced, maybe.

Edited by jwither

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

Hi guys,

 

Need some help with this coin on the right 1963 5 G Deutsche Mark.

Could this possibly be a proof coin....?

CSC_0139.JPG.7ac2d3673260bc8603e435bbf6ac8e6b.JPG

CSC_0141.JPG.8a682528cab065f67ca02fdaef298a09.JPG

Edited by ATOMICSQUIRREL

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

Geejay,

 

What do you think about this Rhodesia 1951 half penny, sure this one one fetch a nice grade?

 

 

 

CSC_0216.jpg.05c1d7faa294dc4ba866732f7dceb7f6.jpg

CSC_0215.jpg.cb6c5277712b1c7c49147b65b1a6d224.jpg

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4kids
Geejay,

 

What do you think about this Rhodesia 1951 half penny, sure this one one fetch a nice grade?

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2631[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2632[/ATTACH]

 

Your German coins, both are circulation strikes.

 

Your Half Penny, a nice AU grade, much wear in the high points.

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Pierre_Henri

Vortechz's Coins

 

The 1951 Southern Rhodesian Half Penny, even in top condition, is not a valuable coin (or am I missing something here?)

 

The German 1963 5 Mark with the G mintmark for the Karlsruhe Mint, is a scarce coin in proof (100 minted) - selling for about 250+ Euros. The normal strikes will sell for less than 10% of that I would guess.

 

Pierre

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geejay50
Geejay,

 

What do you think about this Rhodesia 1951 half penny, sure this one one fetch a nice grade?

 

Hi vortechz,

 

My humble view is that good Southern Rhodesia Copper like South African Copper is really scarce. The 1951 Halfpenny had a Mintage of 480 000 and from this, NGC has graded a total of 10 coins, 8 Red Brown and 2 Red. PCGS has graded 2 Red Brown Coins. There have been no Brown coins graded and yours even if it is a decent AU grade will be the first in Brown.

 

I was attracted to a raw 1951 Half penny recently on ebay and had it graded at NGC - finest known so far , MS66 RD . Pics below.

 

For collectors who are interested , Southern Rhodesia often offers quality at affordable prices in some cases. This will not last as more collectors are moving in World Wide.

 

Thanks for your posting

 

Geejay

 

 

 

58f5a72e54adc_1951HalfpennySRhoRev.jpg.926aa290cc12ded7dc8ebaba5c4b1ca8.jpg

58f5a72e4ae9c_1951HalfpennySRhoMS66RDLogo.jpg.e122c6cd268a7f1ec6f17f0c93cd1d69.jpg

58f5a72e4fdfb_1951HalfpennySRhoobv.jpg.bedde52486afc6fc968d57bc7d3fae0d.jpg

Edited by geejay50

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geejay50

 

In the prior posts on these coins, I believe the 1939 2/ was one mentioned. I do not recall seeing this coin before. But the 1954 2 shillings is not that rare to me. It certainly is not common but I have seen it for sale quite a few times (not recently though) and all of them were in high grade (AU or MS). I could have bought this coin in duplicate if I had wanted to do so.

 

In terms of their financial value proposition, I would say that the 1954 set was a reasonable deal at that price given the quality. I say this not particularly because of the mintage of 20, but also because of its availability.

 

The two sets that come up for sale more often (1932 and 1937), I do not see as compelling based upon the most recent prices . For the 1932, a mintage of 496 where most or at least a high percentage likely still exist (regardless of the census numbers) is not scarce at all. It is no different than the 1950 SA proof set and it costs more given the number of coins in each set. The three sales I see on Heritage in January 2012 were for $1092, $977 and $2530 (graded). I have never heard anyone on this forum write about what a compelling value the SA 1950 proof set is and I do not believe it is either.

 

The most recent sale of the six coin 1937 set at $9200 I consider excessive. It is a better quality set than I recall seeing before but to put this price into perspective, the 1936 SA set with the same mintage sold for $13800 in the same auction. (The grades are lower but there are eight coins and two of them are cameo.)

 

 

Hi Ernesto,

 

I agree with you about the above coins and prices. The 1937 Proof Set was a bit high and the 1954 Proof set eventhough only 4 coins , was a good buy given what is known about that has survived (? or not even actually minted?)

 

Brian Hern said in one of his Postal Catalogues a few years ago that the 1939 Southern Rhodesian 2/- is far scarcer than the more highly priced 1946 2/-. A review of the Grading figures of the two coins tends to support his observation.

 

1939 Two Shilling

NGC: 8 graded 4 XF45,3 AU55 and 1 AU58, PCGS: 1 coin graded AU53 ie 9 in total none in MS

1946 Two Shilling

NGC: 12 graded 6 in MS up to MS64, PCGS: 4 graded and 3 in MS ie 16 coins graded with 9 in MS

 

The nice thing about having not too many grading companies is that we can get an idea of what is really rare and base prices and decisions thereon.There is less variability in grading standards as well.

 

I personally have only ever been able to obtain a 1939 S Rho 2/- in XF45 , the 1946 S Rho 2/- I have in MS63 in my collection and NCS did an excellent job in getting a deposit off that coin.It is a service well worth using in certain coins.

 

Geejay

 

58f5a72e6455e_1939TwoShillingsXF45Obv.jpg.33ef44b1d425f03fbd9f5b13e8a54d26.jpg

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2647[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2648[/ATTACH]

58f5a72e5a58c_1939TwoShillingsXF45Logo.jpg.e6779ec3dfa264a207ce0f7edf08bbc9.jpg

58f5a72e5f6bb_1939TwoShillingsXF45Rev.jpg.686999de1668ea8eafe81650c7a5e3a3.jpg

58f5a72e69aaa_1946SRhoTwoShillingMS63Logo.jpg.bdc3160715b475410b876db13ae218b9.jpg

58f5a72e6e1c0_1946SRhoTwoShillingMS63Rev.jpg.4cd53767f8af1eb04bd3243bf273c606.jpg

Edited by geejay50

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

Hi guys,

 

I need some help with the following coins. I can't seem to find much info on the internet regarding mintage and value.

CSC_0244.jpg.eabb814628fe16830c42214f3d046d33.jpg

CSC_0246.jpg.c6e4a34a1c7528b727f7d5f7fb7a9cd9.jpg

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coinoisseur

Try searching for Maundy Money..............

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ATOMICSQUIRREL
Try searching for Maundy Money..............

 

Got it thx.

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Mike Klee

Hi Pierre, :grin: :grin:

 

I have to let everyone know that I received a most wonderful surprise in the post today - a free gift from Pierre. It was a wonderful piece of 8 from the wreck of the English East Indiaman Hartwell and a signed certificate of authenticity (1993) from the salvors....both very nicely framed.

 

The Hartwell was wrecked on a reef off the Cape Verde islands in 1787 and was carrying "an immensely rich cargo, which included 5,933 kilograms (209, 280 ounces) of fine silver carried on the Company's account". (The Atlas of Shipwreck & Treasure, by Nigel Pickford, 1994).

 

Records show that 97,650 ounces were salvaged by the end of 1791, with the salvors having to endure raids by pirates from the Caribbean. During one of these raids, the salvors had two of their divers killed and lost 11,000 ounces to the pirates.

 

Pierre, I was aware of the modern day salvage of the Hartwell in the 1990s by a South African team involving Tommy Botha and Gavin Clackworthy, after which the European salvage group Aquanautos (sp?) took over. Tommy told me that most of the coins recovered from the Hartwell were in a very bad state, so I am extremely pleased to now have one of the few of the better coins in my possession.

 

Thank you again for such a wonderful gift, which I am "sharing" with the public by hanging it up on display in my dive shop. It joins the display of many other little treasures from the sea which I have collected over the last 31 years, and which I have seen visibly delight and arouse an interest in history with my customers, most of whom are unaware how mentally rewarding history is and how coins are a vital component of the fabric of our history.

 

Mike Klee

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