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geejay50

Scarce Coin Watch

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geejay50
The pictures suggest this to be a circulated piece in my opinion. However improper storage and PVC on the coin may "cover up what the coin in fact is. A reasonable AU grade. The rim shows much handling and I see no proof or indication that this may be an impaired proof. The hair and eyebrow shows slight wear , legend edges also somewhat more rounded than what a proof would be. The reverse is much better.

 

Jan

 

Hi Jan,

 

Yes quite right, this coin graded AU55 when submitted to NGC which is what I thought it was raw.It has a mintage of JUST 64 (655 Proofs) and easily deserves to be in this posting.

 

Thanks for your feedback

 

Geejay

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Cold Sea

Hi Pierre,

 

I actually counted the beads on the inner rim of your coin (I'm not sure what to call it, maybe buttons or pearls?). Heads I counted 106 and reverse I counted 107.

 

I was wondering why the difference, whether this would be the same for all the issues, or if this could assist in identifying different dies and counterfeits.

 

By the way. Nice coin.

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Pierre_Henri
Hi Pierre,

 

I actually counted the beads on the inner rim of your coin (I'm not sure what to call it, maybe buttons or pearls?). Heads I counted 106 and reverse I counted 107.

 

I was wondering why the difference, whether this would be the same for all the issues, or if this could assist in identifying different dies and counterfeits.

 

By the way. Nice coin.

 

Good grief, how on earth did you do that?

 

The coin is a MS63 by the way but your observation took my breath away - maybe some ZAR experts could help here on the number of rim beads -

 

My numismatic oscar for 2011 goes to you Cold Sea - how on earth were you able to count them?

 

Pierre

Edited by Pierre_Henri

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ZARBOY

What a beauty. Very good job done by NCS on this coin.

 

Cold Sea, well done by counting the beads around the rim.... As far as my limited knowledge goes this tickey should only have 106 beads around the rim, and the scary part - ON BOTH SIDES.

 

I would love to count the beads, but my eyes will never last the strong pc light.

 

Anybody prepared to recount the beads for us.

 

Pierre might have a very scarce, one of a kind, of number beads coin here :blink1:

 

Nice grade Pierre, I would have guessed around MS62. Oom Paul hair has started to "fall out", not the most perfect, but the lustre makes up for it in all ways possible.

 

Nice find and congrats.

 

Regards

Thomas

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madathome

Bead / Pearl count on ZAR 3 pence ccoins

 

Hi Pierre,

 

I actually counted the beads on the inner rim of your coin (I'm not sure what to call it, maybe buttons or pearls?). Heads I counted 106 and reverse I counted 107.

 

I was wondering why the difference, whether this would be the same for all the issues, or if this could assist in identifying different dies and counterfeits.

 

By the way. Nice coin.

 

It is nice seeing other taking interest in the difference on south African Coins.

 

Your bead / pearl count is correct and applies to at least the 1892, 1893 and 1897 3ZAR 3 Pence coins.

 

Obverse count = 106

Reverse count = 107

 

I've noticed this some years ago but never bothered to check the 1894, 95 and 96 coins.

 

 

Nice coin Pierre!!!!

 

 

Regards

Jan

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Pierre_Henri

More Help Wanted Please ...

 

The following is a very valuable coin being an english Charles II Sixpence of 1676

(Spink number 3382) catalogued at £950 in EF but this coin is in mint state.

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/Charles1676a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/Charles1676b.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/Charles1676f.jpg

 

But if you look in front of Charles’s mouth and nose there is a darkish deposit that looks like the numeral 78. The “7” is in front of his nose and the “8” in front of his mouth with a full stop after the 8. Or am I seeing things?

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/Charles1676e.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/Charles1676d.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/Charles1676c.jpg

 

I first thought that it was a counter stamped coin but it now looks to me like a sticky substance although the one part of the “8” looks as if could well have been stamped?

 

I am just not sure what I must think?

 

Any suggestions would be welcomed…

 

Pierre

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madathome

 

But if you look in front of Charles’s mouth and nose there is a darkish deposit that looks like the numeral 78. The “7” is in front of his nose and the “8” in front of his mouth with a full stop after the 8. Or am I seeing things?

I first thought that it was a counter stamped coin but it now looks to me like a sticky substance although the one part of the “8” looks as if could well have been stamped?

 

I am just not sure what I must think?

 

Any suggestions would be welcomed…

 

Pierre

 

Hi Pierre,

 

When I invert these pictures to a negative image it is clear that these are numerals and possibly a counterstamp. There is no two question about it. Clear indentation with ridges can be seen in both the numerals. However the 8 looks more than a 6 to me? There is definitely a indent which also looks like a full stop to me.

 

Charles1676f.jpg.458d709246942bb027aa7f7f64c3afbf.jpg

 

Regards

Jan

Charles1676c.jpg.5f04f6aa486b9364cb07d6562dc93b9f.jpg

Charles1676d.jpg.f92efecd7a6dcdda3d6ac761e5981236.jpg

Charles1676e.jpg.b6721b1fe17fa391958b74cd351a4e51.jpg

Charles1676b.jpg.7b4c288cd5b00605cd152fea33696e6c.jpg

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geejay50

1892 DOUBLE SHAFT PONDEN ARE COMMONER THAN 1892 HALFPONDEN

 

Hello collectors,

 

It may not be noticed by many that the smaller 1892 Halfpond is of lower mintage (10 130 vs 15 640 ie 35% less) than the Double Shaft Pond.

 

This lower mintage is shown up in the combined grading figures for NGC and PCGS (505 for DS Ponden vs 314 for Halfponden or 38% fewer).

 

If one looks at the number of Mint State coins graded that comes to 159 DS Ponden and 129 Halfponden in this very sought after state or 19% fewer.

 

The finest known category is held by NGC for both Ponden and Halfponden with two MS66 Ponden graded and one lonely MS66 Halfpond. PCGS has not graded a Halfpond better than one of MS65 and there are five ponden that share MS64 from the 31 Mint State coins graded by PCGS.

 

High end ZAR collectors who will be looking to match MS ponden with MS Halfponden have a problem, because there are fewer MS Halfponden than Ponden to go round and even at lower levels, there are even fewer graded Halfponden relatively speaking.

 

Geejay

 

58f5a72cacb44_1892PondtonedObv.jpg.0d7929699178203fc3af091c05f8e8f9.jpg

 

58f5a72cb1945_1892PondtonedRev.jpg.8f28c793351d22a5ac00bd14eff92e9b.jpg

 

58f5a72c63c6f_1892HalfpondRevBUncGenuine.jpg.b22cb88ac7de1da8eb2f733da74d5b65.jpg

58f5a72ca2810_1892PondDSRevPK.jpg.93b315505f81e813af7a8647f78c0b79.jpg

58f5a72ca7ad7_1892PondDSObv.jpg.f00afb3bc6bba993c05f40b8b7889a43.jpg

Edited by geejay50

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Jongleur
Hi Pierre,

 

I actually counted the beads on the inner rim of your coin (I'm not sure what to call it, maybe buttons or pearls?). Heads I counted 106 and reverse I counted 107.

 

I was wondering why the difference, whether this would be the same for all the issues, or if this could assist in identifying different dies and counterfeits.

 

By the way. Nice coin.

 

What an incredible observation. I second Pierre Henri`s proposal for the Oscar award.

Do you know if this is unique to these coins?

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Pierre_Henri

Cry the Beloved Country

 

What must surely be a South African record for a single numismatic item, a Union of South Africa George V pattern Sovereign (struck in bronze in 1928) sold for an astonishing $184,000.00 last week at Heritage Auctions in the USA.

 

That is a cool R1.5 million.

Pierre

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EWAAN Galleries

Hi

 

Interesting also what the 3 proof crowns sold for:

 

1892 Crown PF63 - $12 650

1892 Crown PF65 - $29 900

1892 Crown PF66 - $161 000 (That is R1.3 million)

 

I think the 2 lower grades were good bargains :)

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jwither

The two lower graded crowns were good bargains relative to the PR-66 CAM which I consider overpriced.

 

From my preliminary observations, I would consider the Heritage results a mixed bag from the standpoint of those who prefer higher prices, which is practically everyone here.

 

If you look at the KGV 1/2D, I consider the 1926 NGC MS-66 BN which sold for just under $1,000 a reasonable price. It is more available (per the census) than it used to be, but it's not common. On the other hand, the 1931 MS-65 RB and 1925 MS-62 RB were vastly overpriced. The 1925 is only scarce as an MS and this coin had almost no RD in it at all. The buyer of that coin paid that excessive price for the label. Same goes for the 1931. It is a much better coin but the 1933 MS-65 RB and the 1928 were much better values. The 1928 is a scarce coin in any better grade.

 

I was not aware that the 1928 Sovereign was bronze. So yes, I would consider that a very strong price. I expect that many collectors of Sovereigns who do not collect SA coinage would be very interested in that coin.

 

I was somewhat surprised at the price of the 1939 proof set. It is (by far) the best of the two I have seen for sale, the other being the Remick. But I do not believe it deserves to sell for more than approximately equivalent mintage KGV proofs. The $51,000 is possibly more than the Heritage PCGS 1933 would sell for now and it definitely is not more desirable than it. There was also no justification for the almost $4,000 the 1939 PR farthing realized. It is not even a proof only coin and I think that price is also more than most KGV proof farthings would bring. The only rationalization I can see for that price is that this date almost never comes up for sale.

 

Other rarities or supposed rarities did not seem to bring the prices that I recall recently. I would consider the ms-64 Sammy Marks tickey a "disappointment" at $46,000. And though I do not believe it should sell for more, the MS-63 Veld Pond also sold for less than I recall in that grade at $28,0000 and if not, definitely below what they sold for at the peak. Also, apparently the 1892 proof 1/2 pond and pond must have failed to meet the reserves, as I do not see them in the archives.

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geejay50

Hi Ernesto,

 

I appreciate your insights around the recent Heritage Auction. They are accurate in the main. The 1926 Halfpenny MS66BN was not really offered for live bidding though and it was in my view a glitch in the system in that it barely came on and then was sold. I view the $1000 as a low price for such an unshared finest known coin eventhough it has become more common with increased grading effort.

 

The 1933 Halfpenny MS65RB must have reached a new record for a George V Halfpenny in selling for just over $8000 with BP and added to that 14% VAT on import, R74,784. It is a stand alone pop 1 coin with a grading figure of 8 including the MS64 coin at PCGS.

 

This vindicates my former view that highest grade George V Coppers are sharing the kind of prices found in top grade ZAR Coppers.

 

The 1936 and 1938 graded Proof Sets fetched strong prices that have shown more than doubling in prices in the last two years when I look at what I paid then.

 

Union collectors have reason to smile therefore.

 

Geejay

 

 

Edited by geejay50

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jwither

It is true that the 1926 1/2d was not offerred in the main session and I am not sure why Heritage chose to do that with it and many others. But that certainly did not prevent anyone from bidding more for it if they had chosen to do so and I do not believe that accounts for what I agree is its low price. But I do agree with you that Heritage made a mistake by not offering it in the live session if that is what you meant because they had nothing to lose by doing so.

 

On the other 1/2d you use as examples, I think the buyers overpaid for them, plain and simple. Even the 1928 which is easily the scarcest sold for more for its relative scarcity versus a coin such as the 1926 2/ MS-64 did earlier last year. The latter coin is easily more than doubly desirable based upon the price ($12,650) and its relative scarcity going by the census pops.

 

The 1936 and 1938 proof sets sold for more than I would care to pay, but they are not overpriced. I think both of those sets have been under rated versus others. For example, because I do not agree that proofs are interchangeable with business strikes, I think the 1936 should sell for MORE than the 1931 which I think should sell for less than it does now. The obvious reason is that the 1936 has a mintage of 40 and the 1931 a mintage of 62. The only observable reason it does not is because either a) It's reputation since it has always sold for more going back at least to the 1962 Kaplan catalog I have b) Because buyers illogically consider the silver proofs as substitutes for circulation strikes. The 1938 I believe deserves to sell for less than the 1931 because it is KGVI but I do not believe for that much less and it is also under rated versus the 1939.

 

On whether collectors and "investors" should be happy with the results, it depsnds upon the individual perspective. Most here are rooting for higher prices and from that standpoint, in my opinion, this sale was a disappointment versus other recent ones. From what I see it is only with selective coins such as those specifically mentioned by others here and a few more that realized strong prices; what most view as the very best or that do not come up for sale often. The vast majority of the rest realized what I would describe as either average or even weak prices.

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geejay50

Hi Ernesto,

 

Thanks or your comments, do you not also agree that to hold an auction on the third of January , so close to New Year when most people are either still travelling or are actually on holiday and away from their desk top computers - is not a great time to get decent prices?

 

Geejay

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Pierre_Henri

It was a cold and stormy night ...

 

For some reason, January is one of the top three months in the year when big coin auctions around the world are held.

 

Especially the English coin auctions. Check past editions of the Coin News magazines and you will see that this is indeed so.

Maybe this is the time of the year when collectors in the Northern Hemisphere are snowed in and suffering from cabin fever – with Christmas bonuses to spend but nowhere to go?!

Maybe our philatelist cousins up north will confirm this trend in their hobby also?

Pierre

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jwither
Hi Ernesto,

 

Thanks or your comments, do you not also agree that to hold an auction on the third of January , so close to New Year when most people are either still travelling or are actually on holiday and away from their desk top computers - is not a great time to get decent prices?

 

Geejay

 

I am as mystefied by that as you are. I do not know why and yes, I agree it makes little sense.

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geejay50

1895 Halfcrown MS62 NGC - Heritage 2nd Jan 2012

 

The above coin was sold for $10,925 or just over R102,000 when one takes into account 14% VAT that is always charged on Heritage coins by SA Customs.

 

Scarce it certainly is - of the 179 coins graded by NGC and PCGS, there have only been a total now of 8 coins graded in MS .

The price fetched was justified in my humble opinion, as such a coin has not been offered for sale since on Bob in 2007 (5 Years ago when an MS64 was sold)

 

In October last year, I was asked to send a very nice looking 1895 2/6 to NGC for grading and that one recently received the coveted MS62 grade. Needless to say the owner is extremely happy.

 

One cannot know what is waiting around the corner in this business, even in something as heavily graded as ZAR !!!!

 

Geejay

Edited by geejay50

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geejay50

THE BENTLEY COLLECTION ON BALDWINS AUCTION LONDON MAY 2012 - MAY 2013

 

 

Calling all Collectors of Truly rare and Highest value Gold Coins including the most complete collection of George V Sovereigns known to be in Private hands.

 

I have been asked by Baldwins of London to bring to your attention the above auction that will be held in three parts namely:

 

Part One: London Royal Mint issues both currency and patterns and proofs and one third of the Victorian die number series - over 375 Lots

 

Part Two: Further London Royal Mint issues including the second part of the Victorian die number series. OF SIGNIFICANCE TO SOUTH AFRICAN COLLECTORS, Pretoria Mint South Africa (Sovereign) issues and additionally issues of Thomas Burgers , Paul Kruger until the Boer War. Other colonial mints ie Canada Australia and India are also well represented with some of their rarest Sovereigns. Over 500 Lots - Held During Week of Coinex International "Coinex" Coin Fair -September 2012

Part Three: Final and most Significant London issues including many patterns and proofs and the final part of the Victorian die number series. A highlight is the finest known George III 1819 London Sovereign (valuation six figures in GBP)

 

Baldwins London has kindly sent me a catalogue detailing some of the most important coins that will be ofered for sale in this coming auction and the parts relevant to SA collectors are mentioned in more detail.

 

The list is incomplete and closer to the time, those interested will find the remainder probably on Baldwins' website. All the coins are raw and not one has beeen encapsulated.

 

1) 1874 Coarse Beard Burgers Pond - looks ?Unc

 

 

2) 1874 Finebeard Burgerspond - looks ? BUnc

 

 

3)1898 Double Nine Overstamp - Looks ? Unc - I will ask Baldwins to supply a certificate of authenticity.

 

 

4)1923 Proof Sovereign

 

 

5) 1928 Matt Proof Sovereign -smaller head - Described by Baldwins as "perhaps the only available specimen to collectors" however a second 1928 Sovereign is known and has been graded by PCGS as Pf63 - it is currently held by an SA collector known to me - 2012 Hern Catalogue value R1,000,000.

 

6)1929 Specimen Proof Sovereign-Smaller head - SA Mint engraving - THIS IS THUS FAR A UNIQUE COIN - HITHERTO UNDESCRIBED IN HERN OR KRAUSE - the most exciting coin in the SA group !!!

 

7)Other Coins mentioned :

Amongst a total of 23 Gold ZAR Ponden including the four above , a 1902 Veldpond. The SA Sovereigns total 13 inclusive of the above three and also include a 1924 Sovereign. Unfortunately the Catalogue is incomplete but there is enough mentioned to make every serious SA Collector stand up and take note.

 

Baldwins has started 2012 with a bang and has again shown that they have enough stature to offer the best to the world along with Heritage in Texas.

 

Regards

 

Geejay

Edited by geejay50

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geejay50

Hi all,

 

I have asked Baldwins for a certificate of authenticity on the Overstamp Pond and details of the other ZAR ponden not specifically mentioned in the Catalogue. If I get pics of the coins as requested, I will upload them on this site for the benefit of all interested. This is a predominantly Gold auction.

 

I have also asked them if there is a Sixbid Internet facility to bid as this is also not clear in the Catalogue.

 

 

Geejay

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qball

Hi geejay50

 

We would appreciate it if you wouldn't advertise other auctions on the forum.

 

Many thanks.

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4kids

The Gander is not safe!

 

Hi geejay50

 

We would appreciate it if you wouldn't advertise other auctions on the forum.

 

Many thanks.

 

Seriously Cuan? What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander....!

 

Perhaps you can let us all know what is allowed and what not, Is there anywhere rules that we can read and brush up on or is the BoB forum rules based on a "we make them up as we go along"?

 

On 8 November another user which is a high profile seller here on BoB punted the Heritage Auctions and BoB had nothing to say about it.

 

Do the management at BoB seriously think that reference to International Auctions past, present and future is harmful or will detract from the income BoB would get or is there in fact some people that realize that such references are in fact necessary on forums such as these and benefits BoB and the auctions happening here?

 

Please do not lock this thread as I have given my farthings worth and imposed a 4 week forum ban on myself for being honest!

 

Regards to all.

Edited by 4kids

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qball
Seriously Cuan? What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander....!

 

Perhaps you can let us all know what is allowed and what not, Is there anywhere rules that we can read and brush up on or is the BoB forum rules based on a "we make them up as we go along"?

 

On 8 November another user which is a high profile seller here on BoB punted the Heritage Auctions and BoB had nothing to say about it.

 

Do the management at BoB seriously think that reference to International Auctions past, present and future is harmful or will detract from the income BoB would get or is there in fact some people that realize that such references are in fact necessary on forums such as these and benefits BoB and the auctions happening here?

 

Please do not lock this thread as I have given my farthings worth and imposed a 4 week forum ban on myself for being honest!

 

Regards to all.

 

Thanks for banning yourself, saves me the trouble... :smile:

 

Most of the time it's fine if the auctions have already passed. But where will it stop, next people will be advertising their auctions on other sites etc...

 

Sorry if you don't like the decision... enjoy the time off... :nuts:

Edited by qball

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