Claerhout Artwork

[Seeds for Africa 18]

I hope this is not in contravention of any forum rules as this was discussed in a previous thread which was locked due to certain members getting reactive. I have a particular interest in this topic as I previously bid on these items (which in hindsight I thankfully didn't win). Hopefully this topic can be discussed without unreasonable reactions from any interested parties. I am NOT accusing anyone of anything or referring to any seller in particular.

 

I would like to ask the following questions.

 

1) Anyone have any idea how many Claerhouts exist? I realise (the one seller pointed this out to me when I asked a question) that the man lived long and painted a lot. But surely there is an estimation? There do seem to be an unlimited stream of them on bob. Surely someone has an estimate of how many exist? I googled it but could not see an estimate anywhere.

2) I also refer to the previous thread and articles in various national publications. It is a fact that there ARE forgeries. Does anyone know if anyone was ever charged in respect to the forgeries?

3) In a previous thread it was mentioned that a painting had been assesed and found to have "wet" paint indicating that it had been painted after the death of the artist. What happened with this?

4) Bobs a very open and transparent trading platform so I suspect that bob won't mind answering this question. Q- Due to the FACT that forged Claerhouts exist, has Bob established with the sellers who sell high volumes of these items, how many they have in their collections that may become available in the future? Obviously there must be a limit to how many items a single individual can have. I would think Bob being ever vigilant would have requested a catalogue from such sellers of what items they have. Did Bob do this? If sellers sell new items they have acquired, do they furnish bob with proof of these new aquisitions? I realise its not practical for bob to do this with all sellers and all products, but for Bobs protection, due to the forgeries of this artists items have any of these measures been taken?

 

I reitterate that my motivation for this thread is purely to understand a few facts, considering I nearly bought one of these items.

 

Others feedback and comments would be appreciated!

[Pathway 10]

I agree, there is a suspiciously large number of them. I was going to buy one at the beginning, but not any more. The man must have been painting donkeys day in, day out, stopping only to do a bunch of flowers every now and then.

On the other hand, the donkeys, he could probably have painted with his eyes shut, it's not as though they're complicated. And they are so easily copied, too.

Nope, no Claerhouts for me.

[lilythepink 11]

Like I've said before in a previous thread, I was also interested in buying one. I asked questions and was told that they had a Certificate of Authenticity. I asked if it was an original and who had provided it and got an answer saying that it was a "certified copy" of the original but no other information was forthcoming. I decided, wisely I think, not to continue entertaining a thought about buying a so-called Claerhout painting.

 

If this certified copy is authentic, I challenge the seller of Claerhouts on BoB to provide a copy of it in each of her listings! That would put any suspicions to rest.

[wayjen 10]

who would certify a copy of an original if the artist is no longer alive, would it be family or lawyers?

[lilythepink 11]

who would certify a copy of an original if the artist is no longer alive, would it be family or lawyers?

 

Heavens alone knows, Wayne. Perhaps the artist did them with a donkey-hair paintbrush before he died? (Unless he gets resurrected every time a painting needs certification - perhaps that's why the paint is still wet??)

[amcintyre 10]

There seems to be an insane amount of paintings done by Claerhout. A search on BOB as well as on online SA based galleries such as The South African Artists site lists up to 9 pages of his stuff on their online gallery site. He seems to have been truly prolific. Some of paintings go for quite high prices as well Frans Claerhout - 31 | Contemporary Art Does anyone know how many years he painted for?

[Seeds for Africa 18]

@lilythepink - nice comment!!!! As for sellers providing a copy in each listing - great idea - but maybe they are worried it will be copied?? Irony at work!!!

@amcintyre - Crikey - R 108 000 for a painting! Surely something

Of that value must have a coa? Can't see someone spending so much without

Proof of authenticity!

[Seeds for Africa 18]

Can anyone tell me what happenned to the previous Claerhout threads? I was trying to get some info from there to post on this thread. I know they werer locked but does that also mean they get deleted?

 

Thanks

[lilythepink 11]

Can anyone tell me what happenned to the previous Claerhout threads? I was trying to get some info from there to post on this thread. I know they werer locked but does that also mean they get deleted?

 

Thanks

 

I've no idea where they are in space but, let's face it, each thread that is opened seems to have more questions than answers about the Claerhout paintings! With good reason, I believe.

[MsPlod 11]

Here you go...

 

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/9223-claerhout-fraud-2.html

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/9223-claerhout-fraud.html

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/8008-vader-claerhout.html

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/forum-community-watch/11353-identical-claerhout-originals.html

 

Google is my friend... la lala lah

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/7338-frans-claerhout.html (this one is just for interest...)

[Seeds for Africa 18]

Here you go...

 

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/9223-claerhout-fraud-2.html

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/9223-claerhout-fraud.html

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/8008-vader-claerhout.html

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/forum-community-watch/11353-identical-claerhout-originals.html

 

Google is my friend... la lala lah

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/7338-frans-claerhout.html (this one is just for interest...)

 

Thank u kindly!

[MrAerospace 10]

MsPlod - you're a star in ferreting out vital information! Thank you!

[Seeds for Africa 18]

Here you go...

 

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/9223-claerhout-fraud-2.html

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/9223-claerhout-fraud.html

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/8008-vader-claerhout.html

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/forum-community-watch/11353-identical-claerhout-originals.html

 

Google is my friend... la lala lah

http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/art/7338-frans-claerhout.html (this one is just for interest...)

 

On sifting through the previous threads, the more this topic is raised, the more questions arise. In retrospect, me starting this thread has been a pointless exercise as I cant see that these questions will be answered. I guess Bob have looked into the concerns surrounding the Claerhout forgeries and I am sure they have discussed such concerns with bob sellers who trade in these items, as well as verified authenticity and the quantity of the pieces these sellers posess, who seem to have never ending supplies of these. Having said that, I believe a clear simple answer to these questions which shouldnt be difficult to answer would clear this whole issue up once and for all and result in buyer confidence on Claerhouts, which would equal more sales to the sellers and more revenue to bob. Everyone wins.

[admin 10]

In retrospect, me starting this thread has been a pointless exercise as I cant see that these questions will be answered.

 

Hi GAMU Trading,

 

I am sure that most people have noticed that Bob (Cuan) did not post anything this week. He is unfortunately otherwise engaged and I am sure he will address all concerns as soon as possible.

[Seeds for Africa 18]

Hi GAMU Trading,

 

I am sure that most people have noticed that Bob (Cuan) did not post anything this week. He is unfortunately otherwise engaged and I am sure he will address all concerns as soon as possible.

 

Thanks Andries. That is understandable! Have a super weekend!

[admin 10]

Thanks Andries. That is understandable! Have a super weekend!

 

Too cold here :sick:

[Seeds for Africa 18]

Prints - Claerhout approved print. Signed by Claerhout on the back - 30x42cm for sale in Port Elizabeth (ID:36770020)

 

This gets more and more bizarre. Excuse my ignorance, but is it normal for artists to sign on the back of prints?

 

I would still love to know the extent of the Claerhout sellers collections but it appears thats a closely guarded secret! It would also be interesting to hear what the conclusion was with the painting that was found to have wet paint years after the death of the artist?

Edited April 30, 2011 by Seeds for Africa
Added

[Wild Olive Art 11]

It is interesting to note that this print is not numbered and therefore not a limited edition - as such , it would not hold much value and at the rate that Claerhout is being forged , unauthenticated original works are not holding much value any more either.

I personally would not touch a " Claerhout" work sold on this site but it would be very interesting to get hold of one or two and get an expert to examine them !

 

Just an interesting observation - Authentic original Claerhout works that are being sold in Galleries at high prices , differ greatly from those being sold here, where we see many of the same donkeys and flower paintings. Furthermore , I find it very surprising and highly questionable that anybody with a Claerhout drawing valued at R12k or oil painting at R65k ( market price of genuine works) would put them up for auction and be happy to sell them for a couple of hundred rands each ???

[lilythepink 11]

Has anyone bothered to check out the so-called "signatures" of the Claerhout works being offered on Bid or Buy?

 

Anyone with a little knowledge about analysing handwriting can see considerable differences - at first glance they may look identical but they actually are not. Goodness knows which, if any, actually carry the old chap's authentic signature! I, too, wouldn't touch any of "his" artworks on BoB!