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Consumer Protection Act - how are you going to change your business?

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LikeNeedWant

I would like to know if I can link to a trimmed down version of my website Terms and Conditions? I want to include the new details on returns and refunds, including the implied warranty for my Bid or Buy sales, but don't want to clutter up each product page. Would this work as a prompt?

 

I won't link to my website, since I know this is not allowed. Rather I will share a pdf stored on FilesAnywhere.com. Any guidance is welcome.

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qball

We believe this would be acceptable to provide a link to file sharing site, not your own site of course.

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Vinyl Lady Decals
I would like to know if I can link to a trimmed down version of my website Terms and Conditions? I want to include the new details on returns and refunds, including the implied warranty for my Bid or Buy sales, but don't want to clutter up each product page. Would this work as a prompt?

 

I won't link to my website, since I know this is not allowed. Rather I will share a pdf stored on FilesAnywhere.com. Any guidance is welcome.

 

With regard to the above, would it be possible for BoB to add an area to the listing page between the description and shipping charges where sellers can add their terms and conditions, if it could be similar to the shipping setup, it would be great. It would also be great if this area could allow the uploading of a graphic file.

 

In this way, sellers could make sure they comply with the Act and also not have a cluttered description which is currently limited to 8000 characters and there are already times when this isn't enough.

 

What do you think?

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qball

We could probably look at doing something along those lines, will forward it to Tech for consideration (i.o.w. MacMuffin).

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LikeNeedWant
With regard to the above, would it be possible for BoB to add an area to the listing page between the description and shipping charges where sellers can add their terms and conditions, if it could be similar to the shipping setup, it would be great. It would also be great if this area could allow the uploading of a graphic file.

 

In this way, sellers could make sure they comply with the Act and also not have a cluttered description which is currently limited to 8000 characters and there are already times when this isn't enough.

 

I have created a prompt where I ask the buyer to insert their full name, with a short message next to it saying that by inserting their name they are indicating that they have read and accept our full Terms and Conditions, and there is a link to view or download the pdf document.

 

Go to the following item and select Buy Now, and then select Go to Checkout for LikeNeedWant, to see how it looks (you can remove the item from your cart afterwards):

Graphics & Video Cards - GIGABYTE ATI Radeon HD4650 -1GB GDDR2 for sale in Bloemfontein (ID:35110606)

 

If you need help, just ask and I will do my best.

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wayjen

Buyers cannot even read emails or shipping/postage rates so I have no faith in them reading prompts.

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LikeNeedWant
Buyers cannot even read emails or shipping/postage rates so I have no faith in them reading prompts.

 

But now you have them 'indicating' that they have read and accepted the Terms, and you would have this information in the details of their order, if I am not mistaken. If they have just inserted their name, and not bothered to read it, it is obviously beyond my control, but they would struggle to dispute any of the terms at a later stage.

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brands online

I like this LikeNeedWant, but what happens if a buyer doesn't fill in their name or fills something else in there? Would that mean a non-acceptance of the seller's conditions after the completed BOB sale? Having dealt with all sorts of buyers with all sorts of ideas, as much as I like it, I too like wayjen, have my doubts...:wondering:

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JPBon
I like this LikeNeedWant, but what happens if a buyer doesn't fill in their name or fills something else in there? Would that mean a non-acceptance of the seller's conditions after the completed BOB sale? Having dealt with all sorts of buyers with all sorts of ideas, as much as I like it, I too like wayjen, have my doubts...:wondering:

Some customers dont even complete the order process let alone accept terms and conditions.

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Some customers dont even complete the order process let alone accept terms and conditions.

 

so very true... was even thinking of changing my BOB name to fairies online, seeing that some buyers tend to think it's all magic...

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kebs

I suppose it's better than nothing though.. At least serious buyers will read it.. The not so serious will probably leave neg feedback & never show themselves again anyway! Fairies online - tee hee...

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Vinyl Lady Decals

Regarding the address issue, would BoB be providing the buyer with the seller's address or would this be left up to the seller to comply with?

If BoB provides it, when will it be provided? Will it be at the time the buyer wins a bid, or must they complete the purchase first, or only after payment is received?

Perhaps the seller should be obliged to indicate when payment is received so that the address can be released?

Especially in light of the following scenario:

What will happen if a buyer has a seller's address before an SNC is filed? The buyer could arrive at a seller's house and an altercation could take place.

This would cause seller's to reconsider whether they ever file SNC's and could affect the entire system in a very negative way.

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qball
Regarding the address issue, would BoB be providing the buyer with the seller's address or would this be left up to the seller to comply with?

If BoB provides it, when will it be provided? Will it be at the time the buyer wins a bid, or must they complete the purchase first, or only after payment is received?

Perhaps the seller should be obliged to indicate when payment is received so that the address can be released?

Especially in light of the following scenario:

What will happen if a buyer has a seller's address before an SNC is filed? The buyer could arrive at a seller's house and an altercation could take place.

This would cause seller's to reconsider whether they ever file SNC's and could affect the entire system in a very negative way.

 

We are looking into this as it's not clear. With regards the SNC's that is very difficult to determine if it will have any impact.

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LikeNeedWant

For those interested:

 

 

  1. In the 'Prompt' setup screen, select "Short Free Text" for Prompt Type.
  2. Give your Prompt a name (in my case I just called it Terms, but you can use anything as this is just for your own reference).
  3. Prompt Title is the text you want to appear on the left of the Free Text Block. In my case it is "Your full name".
  4. For Mandatory Flag select "Mandatory - Prompt is Compulsory for buyer".
  5. Under Help Text I typed in "By providing your full name you are indicating that you have read and accept our full Terms and Conditions before placing an order.View/Download" - obviously the link you would replace with you own link to where you have saved your Terms document (the text in red).
  6. After saving it you need to edit your listings to 'activate' it. I have a trade feed into Bid or Buy so will be checking with Matthew tomorrow if he is able to bulk activate this for me, not sure if this would be possible for everyone with a large number of items listed.

Since the Mandatory Flag is set to Mandatory, the customer will not be able to continue without filling in something. If they fill in garbage I will communicate with them via e-mail that a valid name is required, and that the order cannot proceed without this. At this stage I cannot guess how effective this will be, but for me it is better than nothing. On my website I require people to accept the Terms (this is standard practice worldwide anyway), so why not with Bid or Buy transactions?

 

Forgot to ask, was anyone able to view/download the file? I need to ensure that anyone can access it.

Edited by LikeNeedWant
Added Point 6

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On my website I require people to accept the Terms (this is standard practice worldwide anyway), so why not with Bid or Buy transactions?

 

Forgot to ask, was anyone able to view/download the file? I need to ensure that anyone can access it.

 

Hi LikeNeedWant, I've checked out the file :cool:

 

I get what you're saying about Terms being standard practice. My argument is just this. Being a user and placing a bid/buy on BOB is subject to BOB terms and conditions. By the time/when the bid is placed, these are the only terms the buyer will be accepting. If the buyer wins the auction, for example, then only will they proceed to checkout and be confronted by these 'sellers' terms and conditions.

 

Non-acceptance then, or rather, a buyer deciding then that the seller's conditions do not meet their approval could give them a leg to stand on in case of a SNC appeal, not to mention changing their mind afterwards. Just a thought...

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LikeNeedWant
is subject to BOB terms and conditions.

 

Not if I understand BoB's T&C:

 

4.7 In the information provided about the goods or services the Seller offers for sale, or sells on this Site, the Seller must set out the terms and conditions for sale of those goods or services, including the following:

4.7.1 whether the auction is a Standard Auction, Credit Card Guaranteed Auction, or Buy Now Item, or a combination of any of the preceding auctions;

4.7.2 as applicable, the minimum bid increments;

4.7.3 in the case of a Buy Now Item, a Buy Now Price,

4.7.4 date and time of opening, and closing, of the auction;

4.7.5 payment terms;

4.7.6 terms of delivery;

4.7.7 returns policy;

4.7.8 taxes, duties and costs (including, without limitation, VAT, or other consumption taxes, customs and other import duties and tariffs) payable by the Buyer; and

4.7.9 unless stated to the contrary, any value will be construed to refer to South African Rands;

4.7.10 that both buy now and auction selling prices will be considered to include VAT;

and the Seller agrees that such terms and conditions will include any matters prescribed by us under this Agreement including the matters set out in
,
, and
, as well as any matter specified in the bidorbuy Guidelines.

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Gems n Silver

I don't mind any of this except the giving out of my address, which in my case would be my home address.(for security reasons)

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Seeds for Africa
Hi LikeNeedWant, I've checked out the file :cool:

 

I get what you're saying about Terms being standard practice. My argument is just this. Being a user and placing a bid/buy on BOB is subject to BOB terms and conditions. By the time/when the bid is placed, these are the only terms the buyer will be accepting. If the buyer wins the auction, for example, then only will they proceed to checkout and be confronted by these 'sellers' terms and conditions.

 

Non-acceptance then, or rather, a buyer deciding then that the seller's conditions do not meet their approval could give them a leg to stand on in case of a SNC appeal, not to mention changing their mind afterwards. Just a thought...

.

 

I agree with you, I think this could open a can of worms with an snc.

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KMartin

First Case.

 

As i thought, "drop shippers" are ignoring the new act as from today.. eg..

Please Note: SA customs may charge import tax, VAT etc., according to our clearing agency, parcel less than R500 value is free of charge(WE CAN'T GUARANTEE).

 

act states full prices must be displayed when buying something, can't have.."costs may come" , " tax may be charged" , has to be defined in auction, either : you will pay R xx amount tax or what ever. If i was the buyer under the new act and extra costs came i would simply reject it and demand refund from buyer as it was not listed in end sale the final sum.

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meeks
I don't mind any of this except the giving out of my address, which in my case would be my home address.(for security reasons)

 

Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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wayjen

We were discussing this this morning and I think there are people who come to BoB either to sell or to buy and they are out to fleece the next man/woman and have no regard of any T&C. There are some that are looking for a specific item and they bid on it because they need/want it and have no regard for the T&C whilst some want it done by the book because they know about the implications of not following the T&C.

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SEWINGMACHINELADY

this is no good. people will use my sewing machines in factory like conditions, break it, and in 6 months, demands money back.... i don't like it one bit!

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meeks
this is no good. people will use my sewing machines in factory like conditions, break it, and in 6 months, demands money back.... i don't like it one bit!

 

I foresee a lot of problems with this new act regarding a lot of items sold on BOB. Like your machines. They are not "built" for industrial use (factory conditions), they are for domestic (normal) use, and should a seller selling these machines (on BOB) end up having problems with buyers due to the example given by you, there is no way the seller will be able to show proof that the machine/s were only used for "domestic" purposes, and as the machines do not come cheap, sellers will have a fight of note on their hands, even if you state in your listings "for domestic use only"

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qball

I think a lot of this will only be determined once an actual case has set a precedent, or becomes case law... but I would hazard a guess that the court would look at "reasonable use"...

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zerohour

Dummie's guide to consumer act

 

Direct marketing:

l Consumers can now cancel any direct marketing agreement within five business days, allowing you to change your mind about a purchase.

l You can also now make use of an “exclusion register” whereby you can register a pre-emptive block against receiving any electronic communication.

l The act now outlines the times and days during which you may be contacted for direct marketing.

l From now on a salesperson visiting a consumer must wear an identification device such as a badge.

 

Deliveries

l Ordering online? Goods will have to be delivered at an agreed date, time and place. If not, you will be free to accept or cancel the agreement – it’s your choice.

l Companies are also obliged to deliver goods that match the sample or description of the product. You have the right to examine your purchases before accepting them, and reject them if you’re not happy.

l If you didn’t get a chance to examine the product and are unhappy with it, it can be returned at the supplier’s expense.

Returns and refunds

l Consumers have six months to return faulty or unsafe goods.

l You will have a choice between the supplier repairing or replacing these, or refunding you in full.

l If the product fails again within three months, the supplier must replace it or refund you, barring gross negligence on your part.

 

Liability

l A producer, distributor, importer or retailer can now – in certain instances – be held strictly liable for any harm or damages suffered by a consumer using a product, irrespective of whether negligence can be attributed to them.

l You will need to approach the courts to institute any claim for damages based on “strict liability”.

 

Repairs

l Companies have to provide you with an estimate for the work – which you must approve – and cannot charge you more than that estimate.

l If more work is required above and beyond the estimate, they first have to get the go-ahead from you.

l Companies also can’t charge you for preparing their quote, unless you agree to this.

 

SMS competitions

l Companies can no longer charge you an exorbitant R5 or R10 to enter an SMS or MMS competition, but will have to stick to the usual network rates.

 

Contracts

l Automatic contract renewals will be no more. Companies will have to contact you – in writing – between 40 and 80 business days before your contract expires. They have to give you the option to continue your contract, change its terms or cancel it.

l Note that the contract will continue on a month-to-month basis until you make your choice.

l You will also be able to cancel contracts at any time. If you’re unhappy, give the company 20 days’ notice and you’re home free.

l You still have to pay anything you owe the company up to the date of cancellation, and you might also be charged a cancellation fee.

l Suppliers have to use understandable language in contracts.

 

Warranties

l You will be able to return and claim refunds for poor-quality goods because there is now an implied warrantee of six months for any goods purchased – irrespective of other warranties.

l However, you can’t insist on a refund because it is cheaper at another store or the design no longer fits in with your décor. Also, if you have tampered with the goods in any way, then a demand for a refund or replacement can be denied.

 

Voetstoots

l No longer is it a case of what you see, or don’t see because it is hidden, you get. The act identifies the consumer’s rights to good-quality products in good working order and fit for their purpose.

l Suppliers must let you know of all defects.

 

Reservations

l If you cancel a booking or reservation, the supplier is entitled to charge you a reasonable cancellation fee.

l If the booking is cancelled because of the death or hospitalisation of the person who made the booking, no cancellation fee can be charged.

The odds have been evened, and one thing is for sure, it is about to get very interesting in the financial ring. :blink1:

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