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Jacques Kuun

Penny Black in Block of 12 - MINT!

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Jacques Kuun

Hello Cuan

I quote from your post: I get frustrated because long time members know the process and procedures - instead of just reporting it, point us in the right direction, narrow our search/investigation down to relevant details (relevant google pages, forums, verifiable documents and catalogue values etc.), as I said we do not know the values of these items, and unfortunately we need something more concrete to act on in most cases.”

Your advice is accepted unconditionally and I, for one, will do this in future.

Without contradicting myself on the above sentence, I would just like to add the following: The stamp market thrives on rumours. I hope to attend a major stamp fair on Saturday and I know what the talk will be about: “Somebody lost big money on BidorBuy” / “Do not trust the site”, etc, etc. Statements like these are of course devoid of the real facts, yet there is a bad perception. And very often perception is reality (Just for example, if somebody believes I am a crook, he will not buy from me – that is his perception and the reality is that I am down on sales).

Also, it is impossible to PROOF whether a Rembrandt painting (for instance) is genuine or not. Comparisons can be made, experts can be consulted, etc, etc. But in the end it is all about opinion.

Thus, it is almost always impossible to give you PROOF about a stamp listing on BidorBuy.

Thanks.

Keep well and regards

Jacques

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Seeds for Africa

I am not attacking any of the other posters on the thread. I agree with dstorm that "concrete proof" is virtually impossible to provide. Common sense should prevail, that something is wrong when an item worth R1.8m(I think I read that correct) is sold for R 4 000. I do feel sorry for the buyer and am in now way blaming him for anything. However, as safe a trading environment as bob is, I still think anyone buying anything needs to be "streetwise" and do their research.

 

Maybe its my nature and I am overly suspicious, but if I was offerred something for r 4 000 worth over a million rand, i would politely decline without hesitation. 99.99999% of the time, when something is to good to be true, it is.

 

Thanks

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

HI

Firstly welcome back CUAN.The site always seems more secure when i know you have your eyes and hands on all problems that may arise.I aM well aware that concrete proof is requested when contacting comm watch with a suspect buyer or item.

However the twice i have become involved i have unfortunately been unable to provide concrete proof as the item displayed is to all intents and purposes correct as to the photo.To identify the item is simple as we have catalogues AND YEARS OF EXPERIENCE etc but to then provide comm watch with a catalogue number will not help them as they do not have catalogues available-Also to provide online reference is difficult as their are no detailed pictures of the items and there are variations of the stamp in question such as shades of colours,no white line etc which need an experienced hand to identify.The problem with this listing that i reported was a mint block of 6 queen vic 2d blue which cheapest c/v was app. 27 000 pounds each so the block was c/v app 1.8 million rand-NO ONE would ever sell that for R4000 if he could ever have obtained one in the first place.Therefore the only " proof " that i could provide was my experience and my trading record on BOB over the past three years that this was an impossible item to sell at that price and had to be a scam.

On another note it will be interesting to hear the winning bidder(BIDDING PIET) input on these items that he bought and perhaps some insight into the type of forgeries he thinks they are.

NEIL

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Jacques Kuun

Hello Neil

I will bet you a cup of coffee (in October at the Cape Town National) that it is nothing more than a piece of paper printed from the computer. Or perhaps a colour copy.

If it was a quality forgery, done on the right paper, it would have been recorded and known in the trade.

Thanks and regards

Jacques

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qball

Thank you guys for your input, always valued. The problem with collectables is that often values are very subjective, this has been seen in the coin category, antiques etc. That is why it is difficult to determine if the selling price is in fact over inflated. Whilst we do accept what you are saying we have had instances where sellers have legitimate claims for the price they advertise items at, but this is often a matter of debate amongst collectors and investors.

 

But the bottom line is - if it's too good to be true it probably is and always do your research first before purchasing. Just like the police, we can't protect everyone all the time, it's impossible. I am not aware of any website or online trading platform that offers guaranteed protection from such issues. Goods this "valuable" should be purchased through an escrow service like escrow.com where the buyer can inspect the goods first and confirm before payment is released.

 

It is regrettable that such things do happen, but buyers unfortunately also need to take some precautions and responsibility when deciding to purchase goods of this nature.

 

Thanks again for your insights and comments, we often learn from such valuable information and insight and it does help us going forward.

 

Cheers

Cuan

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Jacques Kuun

Thanks to all

I think that all is said and done (except, would it not have been lovely to have obtained these items at these prices – to have sold them again and perhaps bought that house at the coast?).

Let us dream on

Regards

Jacques

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Guest Guest
Thanks to all

 

I think that all is said and done (except, would it not have been lovely to have obtained these items at these prices – to have sold them again and perhaps bought that house at the coast?).

 

Let us dream on

 

Regards

 

Jacques

 

Hi Jacques!

 

Yes!

 

See, as I said before in this thread; it's not always about evil greed... It's many a time just sheer hope ~ more often wishful thinking...

 

Alas... You wish for a lovely house at the coast? (Like in Knysna?) O-yea? Tsunami rings a bell?

 

Be happy and thankful - wherever we are... Our Lord is Good.

 

Kind regards

 

Edmund....

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seahorsefanatic

Hi there

 

I read this thread with amusement and its not the first time and nether will it be the last. A fool/idiot/sucker is born every minute. As they say every village has an idiot. There was an item that was claimed to have two shades and a rare overprint and bidding was invited at R2,000,000 - what next !!!

 

There are a number of ways to rip people off in the stamp business. By selling damaged items and claiming "fine used " etc. By claiming rarity that doesnt exist and then claim ignorance if caught out. By selling items at higher values than they are really worth....the list goes on. The first two examples are particularly nasty and need to be exposed. These situations will always crop up.... let us attack the descriptions and expose them but not attack the persons....people will draw their own conclutions.

 

When interested in buying an item where high values are claimed or high prices are asked, lets say over R1,000 and here Im talking about individual items and not collections or accumulations then why not use the forum to confirm that the item is legit. Its free and there are many collectors and dealers out there who are willing to assist.

 

I was recently offered the half penny springbok definative from the late forties with the centre inverted. also happened to be a Bulgarian dealer. The price was about $500 or R3,500. Before parting with my money, I checked with a local dealer who knows Union material and he confirmed that this stamp does not exist. Conclusion was that I saved a lot of money and heartache.

 

The cheaper material that a new collector is likely to buy to start with will probably only be a bad buy due to poor condition or overpriced but the loss will be minimal.

 

The higher priced item will more than likely be purchased by the more experienced collector and therefore wont be caught out too often.

 

The person who looses big time is that person with limited or no knowledge and lots of money to spend. One only has to hear the stories of millions being taken in the pyramid schemes and the Nigerian scams. While there will always be people with disposible money there will be someone thinking up a way to get their greasy paws on that money.

 

Let the buyer beware

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