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dstorm

Penny Black in Block of 12 - MINT!

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dstorm    10
dstorm

Hello all

Is somebody going to get hurt?

Queen Victoria - black penny 1840 block of 12 unused was sold for R25,000.00 on 23 Mar at 13:43 by adamstamps in Bulgaria (ID:35009939)

Surely this item will be a “quick sale” anywhere in the civilized world at many times the asking price? The seller also sold an unused 2d Blue in a block of 4.

Let us hold thumbs for the buyer (although I would not bet one cent!).

Regards

Jacques

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ATA STAMP CENTRE    10
ATA STAMP CENTRE

HI JACQUES

I did report to comm watch after the 2d blue block with c/v 1.8 million sold for R4000-he replied to them with same reply he used to answer the question on the penny black block-They still allowed him to list and i cannot see how that can be genuine sale-He could get R300 000 anywhere even in BULGARIA.I nteresting to note that the only buyer to rate him was BIDDING PIET as he received 1 item-He also bought the 2d blue block but not rated yet so i wonder if he will receive that-Maybe we missed the bargain of the century but i do no think so!!!!!!!!!!

NEIL

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dstorm    10
dstorm

Hello Neil

Blocks of 4 are just about non-existent. Let us not talk about larger multiples.

I quote from Paul Fraser’s web page (dated 27 March 2010). The promo concerns a mint Penny Block in a Block of 4. NOT TWELVE. It is a plate 5, which as we know, is with some other plates, the lowest priced.

“Any stamp collector will know that Penny Blacks are not particularly rare stamps as they were produced in such vast numbers to cope with the predicted mass demand.

However, unused examples in good condition are relatively uncommon, and blocks even more so. A block of four (AG to BH on the original sheet, taken from Plate V) is available here with only very light soiling and imperfections.

The four, with much of their original gum, were for a long time part of a block of six, and have already passed through three significant collections: that of Ernest Dale, Fisher and Sayeed.

The attractive piece is expected to sell for £45,000-50,000 in Spink's auction, which takes place in London on July 14.”

Any major auction house in the world would have gladly paid a cash advance of R250 000-00 for this item – not a TOTAL amount of R25 000-00. There is just no way that it would have sold for less than Two Million Rand. The seller decided to go to all the trouble to list it on BoB, instead of emailing someone in Europe.

The seller is either a scammer or the block is a forgery.

Regards

 

Jacques

Edited by dstorm

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dstorm    10
dstorm

Hello Neil

I forgot to add a third alternative: There is just no way (as in NO way) that the block would be without a certificate if it was genuine. Perhaps the block is stolen and therefore it cannot be sold in the main market.

Regards

Jacques

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Guest Guest   
Guest Guest
Seller: i accept bank transfer moneybookers cash.

 

This is a scammer! There is NO protection with that type of payment, it's like throwing your money into a hurricane... That "seller" left no tracks - NOTHING!

 

Mark my words.

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dstorm    10
dstorm

FOUR NEGATIVE RATINGS!

 

If this was a luxury car, BoB would have stopped the seller dead in its tracks.

 

Why are stamps treated differently to cars, cell phones, computers, etc?

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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ATA STAMP CENTRE    10
ATA STAMP CENTRE

HI JACQUES

The sad part is i reported this to community watch before any sales had closed as the 2d blue mint block was c.v R1.8 million and listed at R4000-and this set the alarm bells ringing-Of course i could not provide "proof" as i only have my experience to go on-But anyone should have tread carefully here unless the greed overshadowed the common sense-Lets see what transpires now.

NEIL

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa
FOUR NEGATIVE RATINGS!

 

If this was a luxury car, BoB would have stopped the seller dead in its tracks.

 

Why are stamps treated differently to cars, cell phones, computers, etc?

 

Regards

 

Jacques

 

I guess the average man understands and has a feel for the value of a car / cellphone / electronics and not stamps. Not sure many bob users can relate to a block of stamps being worth 1.8m rand. Surely someone buying something like this should have an idea of the fair value of it. These scammers seem to be preying on the greed of buyers. Sad that cw didnt do something long before it got to this. I know nothing about stamps but if offerred something with a value of 1.8m for R 4 000 I would steer well clear. 99.999999% of the time, when a deal seems too good to be true, it isnt true!

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dstorm    10
dstorm

Hello Neil

Well the seller is still not Blacklisted.

To top it all, he is still ranked the fifth top seller in the stamp section. It is only with a lot of hard work that I still managed to be ranked above him (seems to be quite easy for you).

What a boykie. Maybe he will offer the not so common Guyana Classic or the Inverted Jenny next.

Regards

Jacques

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dstorm    10
dstorm

Hello GamuTrading

I understand what you are trying to say.

But, why does the advice of the experienced stamp sellers mean nothing to the BoB management?

I attend a stamp fair almost every Saturday, sometimes to sell and very often only to buy. I do a lot of PR work for BoB (OK, for my own benefit), believing that a stronger BoB Stamp Section would be good for the entire SA stamp market.

This incident caused a lot of damage to the sellers selling “better items”. The attitude should NOT be that the buyer should beware. I understand that the buyer should take caution, but I also believe that BoB should take action in some cases. In this case it was impossible for us to provide PROOF. Yet the evidence was overwhelming.

Regards

Jacques

PS: Please Cuan, this is not an attack on BoB. It is because I just love the site (once again I admit it is because I benefit from it) and that it why I want to keep its “stamp scene” clean.

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa
Hello GamuTrading

 

I understand what you are trying to say.

 

But, why does the advice of the experienced stamp sellers mean nothing to the BoB management?

 

I attend a stamp fair almost every Saturday, sometimes to sell and very often only to buy. I do a lot of PR work for BoB (OK, for my own benefit), believing that a stronger BoB Stamp Section would be good for the entire SA stamp market.

 

This incident caused a lot of damage to the sellers selling “better items”. The attitude should NOT be that the buyer should beware. I understand that the buyer should take caution, but I also believe that BoB should take action in some cases. In this case it was impossible for us to provide PROOF. Yet the evidence was overwhelming.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

PS: Please Cuan, this is not an attack on BoB. It is because I just love the site (once again I admit it is because I benefit from it) and that it why I want to keep its “stamp scene” clean.[/quote

 

Hi Jacques

 

Dont get me wrong (and no, I am not attacking Bob, Cuan!) but I too have a problem that "proof" needs to be provided. I totally agree, that the experts like yourselves opinions on such issues should be taken incredibly seriously. What more proof is required then that the person is selling a huge value item at R 4 000 or less than 1% of the market value? I do still however stand by what I said, that the buyer needs to be "streetwise" and also be wary when he is buying an item for less than 1% of market value. I did a simple google of the block in question and you can get an immediate idea of value. If you want to bring the luxury car comparison into it, yes, its like selling a new C 200 mercedes for R 4 000, and can you imagine how quickly people would jump around if that happenned. I stand to correction but I think the listing would be "pulled" without any proof required!!!

 

Grant

Edited by Seeds for Africa
Typo

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dstorm    10
dstorm

Hello GAMU Trading

Ever so slightly off topic….

I am an avid (amateur) student of the “old” RSA law.

In the “old” South Africa, many people were sentenced to death (and executed), simply because their guilt was proven “beyond reasonable doubt”.

Chilling, is it not?

Regards

Jacques

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Guest Guest   
Guest Guest

Hi All

 

What a sad case, again.

 

adamstamps

 

adamstamps

 

Google some of the info...

 

Regards

 

Edmund...

 

NB! The above site [adamstamps] is the home-site of this person on BOB! Can you spot the glaring evidence?

Edited by Edmund1000
NB

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dstorm    10
dstorm

Thanks Edmund

I have just emailed this seller.

I hope to post some wonderful scans of future acquisitions very soon.

Regards

Jacques

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Thanks Edmund

 

I have just emailed this seller.

 

I hope to post some wonderful scans of future acquisitions very soon.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

 

Hello Jacques

 

Pleasure. Great idea on your side!

 

I used to collect stamps as a boy... Still have the album! (LOL, that to us were mandatory as kids then...) Alas, I don't think it is greed though... These buyers saw a chance to get "lucky" Just like me and you... If this was the "real thing", would I have go for it? For sure - you too? ;-)) Not so? :-))

 

Shame on the scammer!

 

Kind regards

 

Edmund...

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa
Hello GAMU Trading

Ever so slightly off topic….

I am an avid (amateur) student of the “old” RSA law.

In the “old” South Africa, many people were sentenced to death (and executed), simply because their guilt was proven “beyond reasonable doubt”.

Chilling, is it not?

Regards

Jacques

 

Not a bad concept.... and would make such people think twice!

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qball    11
qball

Unfortunately guys, we are not stamp experts and as you rightly stated no proof was provided, so we have to just take your word for it... come on guys, you know how it works, even if you are specialists/experts in your field. Why don't we shoot first, then ask questions for every single seller on the site who may or may ot be doing something wrong - geez, we would have no-one on the site left to sell anything! This is easier to manage in some categories, but in categories such as collectables, where values are often very subjective, we can't simply assume that this is the case. As experts you would have details/info as to why you would report this including any details, documents, literature that would assist us in making an informed decision. We did check out the website and found it to be dodgy, so based on that we removed all the listings and restricted the seller, pending further investigation. We have also notified the buyers.

 

Let's shoot first... :rolleyes:

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Why don't we shoot first, then ask questions... Let's shoot first... :rolleyes:

 

Hi!

 

No you cannot... You have to pick up the rifle, load it, aim and only then decide to fire, or not...:smile:

 

[Parental guidance is advised - not for unconfident scammers too.]

 

So...?

 

[1] Adamstamps, all the way from Bulgaria joined BOB in South Africa, not ebay (An international e-auction site... ;-)), to sell extremely rare, very valuable penny black 1840 block of 12 unused stamps and others alike too... What's the odds of this being the real McCoy?

 

~Picks up the rifle...~

 

[2] Person has NO ratings, yet selling - not auction, extremely valuable items: Selling price for 12[!!!] unused stamps? R25 000. Less than one tenth of the current street value? WOW! Boffins here and on Google says so...

 

~Load rifle; slowly...~

 

[3] Oops... Sadly NO certification of authenticity. But you can take his word - it's real. Reason for selling it? Seller says: "i know that the price is low, but one friend want to buy it." That bizarre "reason", make no sense at all! Sounds as if the seller spites his friend by selling it on BOB. Duh! Payment type: Moneybookers cash (Terrible - very high-risk - you cannot trace the seller at all!)

 

~Aims carefully - breathes in - exhales very slowly...~

 

[4] Insured Postage? NO! Just standard air mail - from Bulgaria to South Africa... Price? A mere R10. R10?! That's it man.[seller's spelling retrogressive and grammar also very worrying.]

 

~Pulls the trigger!~

 

[5] Four terrible, negative ratings... Stating: "The black and blue penny stamps seems to be forgeries, Stamp might be fake - some fine details missing etc..."

 

~Walks over and feels pulse. Nothing...~

 

[6] adamstamps (-4) Blacklisted; Status: is Blacklisted; 0.00% positive ratings; Located very likely NOT in Bulgaria...

 

~Aims again and empties clip...~

 

 

I agree, one cannot shoot with an empty rifle...

 

 

PS Wrote post on a lighter note...

Edited by Edmund1000
S

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qball    11
qball
Hi!

 

No you cannot... You have to pick up the rifle, load it, aim and only then decide to fire, or not...:smile:

 

[Parental guidance is advised - not for unconfident scammers too.]

 

So...?

 

[1] Adamstamps, all the way from Bulgaria joined BOB in South Africa, not ebay (An international e-auction site... ;-)), to sell extremely rare, very valuable penny black 1840 block of 12 unused stamps and others alike too... What's the odds of this being the real McCoy?

 

~Picks up the rifle...~

 

[2] Person has NO ratings, yet selling - not auction, extremely valuable items: Selling price for 12[!!!] unused stamps? R25 000. Less than one tenth of the current street value? WOW! Boffins here and on Google says so...

 

~Load rifle; slowly...~

 

[3] Oops... Sadly NO certification of authenticity. But you can take his word - it's real. Reason for selling it? Seller says: "i know that the price is low, but one friend want to buy it." That bizarre "reason", make no sense at all! Sounds as if the seller spites his friend by selling it on BOB. Duh! Payment type: Moneybookers cash (Terrible - very high-risk - you cannot trace the seller at all!)

 

~Aims carefully - breathes in - exhales very slowly...~

 

[4] Insured Postage? NO! Just standard air mail - from Bulgaria to South Africa... Price? A mere R10. R10?! That's it man.[seller's spelling retrogressive and grammar also very worrying.]

 

~Pulls the trigger!~

 

[5] Four terrible, negative ratings... Stating: "The black and blue penny stamps seems to be forgeries, Stamp might be fake - some fine details missing etc..."

 

~Walks over and feels pulse. Nothing...~

 

[6] adamstamps (-4) Blacklisted; Status: is Blacklisted; 0.00% positive ratings; Located very likely NOT in Bulgaria...

 

~Aims again and empties clip...~

 

 

I agree, one cannot shoot with an empty rifle...

 

 

PS Wrote post on a lighter note...

 

All valid points but circumstantial - unfortunately not proof. 3 Negatives only posted last night, after we had taken action already. The IP and all details do match Bulgaria, again, not proof of anything.

Edited by qball
Removed irrational immature comment

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All valid points but circumstantial - unfortunately not proof. 3 Negatives only posted last night, after we had taken action already. The IP and all details do match Bulgaria, again, not proof of anything. But you're right lets nuke them all, who needs buyers and sellers....

 

You said that twice... Not I Qball.

 

I'm clearly, surely only referring to that ONE conn artist.

 

With respect to your rank here but, your irrational sarcasm baffles me. Surely, that's no mature solution-summery nor reaction Qball.

 

Kind regards

 

 

PS Nothing is foul- ~ foolproof. But on needs to grow as things become clear...

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The IP and all details do match Bulgaria, again, not proof of anything.

 

This person (VERY likely) uses good old IP spoofing... I can spoof my IP too... I have done it in the past - honestly; just to try it - for clean fun.

 

Do you know that?

Edited by Edmund1000

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qball    11
qball
You said that twice... Not I Qball.

 

I'm clearly, surely only referring to that ONE conn artist.

 

With respect to your rank here but, your irrational sarcasm baffles me. Surely, that's no mature solution-summery nor reaction Qball.

 

Kind regards

 

 

PS Nothing is foul- ~ foolproof. But on needs to grow as things become clear...

 

Unfortunately sarcasm although not entirely necessary does seem to get the point across. But thanks for your input. Sorry about my irrational outburst, not meant to offend you or anyone else.

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qball    11
qball
This person (VERY likely) uses good old IP spoofing... I can spoof my IP too... I have done it in the past - honestly; just to try it - for clean fun.

 

Do you know that?

 

Why spoof a Bulgarian IP address?

 

And yes, I deal with spoofing all day :wink:

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qball    11
qball

I get frustrated because long time members know the process and procedures - instead of just reporting it, point us in the right direction, narrow our search/investigation down to relevant details (relevant google pages, forums, verifiable documents and catalogue values etc.), as I said we do not know the values of these items, and unfortunately we need something more concrete to act on in most cases. We could do a Google search, but would we really know what we were looking for, not being experts in this field?

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voldermort    10
voldermort

it seems this kind of thread has popped up more than once and again it is the same old story..........if you dont know what you are buying, dont buy it.

never mind what price he was selling these items (after all it is a free country and I imagine a seller still can sell their items for whatever price they choose) to someone even with a scant knowledge of stamps, one glance at the stamps and it was obvious that what this person was selling was forgeries. could this be the reason none of the more knowledgeable stamp collectors bid on any of these items?

i know nothing about art, thus if i were offered a Van Gogh for R5 000 i would let it pass, simply due to the fact that i could so easily be swindled where eg: art is concerned.

the only reason i can think of where i would pay R5 000 for this Van Gogh is because I've heard via the grapevine that it is worth millions and i do believe that i have found somebody with even lesser knowledge than i have of art, and who i can make some quick money from.......especially if this person was a new seller.

bid or buy at the end of the day has done each and every one of the sellers on bid or buy a huge favour............ remember the days of fleamarkets, newspaper advertising etc etc etc, however nowhere on the bid or buy site do i see anywhere that they profess to be experts in any field.............the expertise lies in the hands of the buyers of any item.....back to the very first point i made........if you dont know what you are buying, dont buy it.

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