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Seeds for Africa

Shipping & Insurance RIP OFF

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa

Well, I really would like some feedback from other sellers on this one.

 

I made a purchase on bob. I assumed the postage charge was right as assumed I was buying a bigger product then what it was. This is ridiculous. The product was packaged in the manufacturers box (no cost for the box) to the seller. The box was wrapped in black plastic (R0.20 at most). Posted econopost at 18.15. Add another 50 cents for printing the label and tape. At most it cost 18.85 to pack and mail this item. Charged R 50. Thats 31.15 profit on postage. Sure there is the cost of going to the post office and the sellers time at the post office, but R31.15. This is a rip off. The seller is profiting on postage. And in his listings, if he includes another item in the same parcel (if total weight is under 1 kg he still ships econo) he charges an extra R17. In this case he would be profiting R48.15. This is not fair.

 

To make matters worse, on checkout he charges R5 insurance. So on an item that i bought costing 41 it works out at 12% insurance. This is not stated in his listings, so if you are a buyer like me who never buys something without insurance you are forced to be ripped off by paying this. And it gets worse - the item arrives today - shipped without insurance. This is nonsense and this seller is ripping his buyers off. I can still accept that the seller "self insures", but max that should be charged at any time should be 2%.

 

The product, is exactly as described - NO PROBLEM with that, but the deal in its entireity leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.

 

This has been discussed ad nauseum on the forum, and no, I dont think bob should regulate postage costs, but I do think that more action needs to be taken and stiffer penalties charged with overcharging on shipping. The said seller sold 220 items in the last month so on average he makes R 6 800 profit on postage (sure he has his costs of his time and fuel to do the mailing but R 6 800???).

 

And yes, I have contacted community watch, but needed to vent my frustration!

 

And no, I am not going to paste the sellers name on the forum, as he is one of MANY sellers overcharging on postage, so I dont think it is fair to victimise one seller by publishing his name, as the only way to do this fairly would be to publish all sellers who overcharge, and I dont have the time to waste doing that.

 

I also keep hearing members say "report it to community watch and the sellers, will be charged a penalty for overcharging on postage and insurance". Bob is a very open and transparent trading system, so maybe Bob would like to respond to this. And if sellers are penalised for overcharging on postage and insurance, I would love to know when the last time was that a seller was penalised and what the penalty was.

 

Thanks

 

Grant

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa

An update. Received a very prompt repsonse to this from my community watch alert. But.... Bob are missing the point here. They forwarded my email to the seller asking him to respond. Thats not the point. The point is NOT on this one sale. The point is about all buyers overcharging on shipping and insurance.

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brands online    10
brands online

Here's what I don't get. If the seller advertised his charges upfront and they were accepted without question based on the buyer's assumption, then that leaves no room for complaint afterwards, not so?

 

I mean no seller forces any buyer to buy from them, it is ENTIRELY the buyer's choice to do so, so quite clearly complaining after receiving the item is more a case of sour grapes than a valid complaint.

 

Here's another thought too. The average charge on postage for the first item on BOB is about R40-00. Combining items is entirely at the seller's discretion too. So purchasing 10 items from a seller who cobines even at R20, effectively SAVES a buyer R180 on postage if the items were to bought individually or from a seller who does NOT combine.

 

At the end, it remains the buyer's responsibility to read and/or question the seller before bidding/buying.

 

 

Insurance charged at anything over 2% is another matter entirely and punishable by the law.

Edited by brands online

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kyle2    10
kyle2

Hi Grant, I understand your frustration, and you have very valid points in your post.

I think you got off lightly with only R48 for postage, some sellers go all the way up to R350.00 for a ring, granted this is sent from overseas, but on eBay, the overseas shipping for such a small item rarely is more than $12.00, or less than R100.

 

Unfortunately there are many sellers who take buyers for fools on Bob, and the frustrating thing is that there is little or nothing one can do about it, as you have also stated, this has been discussed ad-nauseaum in the forums.

It boils down to the fact that you have to be happy to pay the shipping charges before you bid. In your case the seller seems to have done a couple of unethical things with the insurance and so forth, so that needs to be addressed.

 

But you did receive your item (be happy about that, stuff is getting lost in the post lately) and I think (my opinion) that R50 or less is fair postage, taking the travelling, standing in the postal q, arrange the collection or purchase of the item etc. etc. etc. into account.

:worried:

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa
Here's what I don't get. If the seller advertised his charges upfront and they were accepted without question based on the buyer's assumption, then that leaves no room for complaint afterwards, not so?

 

I mean no seller forces any buyer to buy from them, it is ENTIRELY the buyer's choice to do so, so quite clearly complaining after receiving the item is more a case of sour grapes than a valid complaint.

 

Here's another thought too. The average charge on postage for the first item on BOB is about R40-00. Combining items is entirely at the seller's discretion too. So purchasing 10 items from a seller who cobines even at R20, effectively SAVES a buyer R180 on postage if the items were to bought individually or from a seller who does NOT combine.

 

At the end, it remains the buyer's responsibility to read and/or question the seller before bidding/buying.

 

 

Insurance charged at anything over 2% is another matter entirely and punishable by the law.

 

Your point is accepted. I read the listing and made the decision to buy. I cant see any sour grapes as I clearly pointed out that I am happy with the product and total price paid. I thought bob was about making money on our product and not out of shipping. The seller in this case responded promptly. He justified his shipping charges by putting a R15 listing fee down to shipping costs! Since when can advertising be construed in any way as a shipping cost? He further justified his shipping charge by saying that Bob's competitive :wtf:. Enough said!

 

And maybe I am totally wrong here, I accept I am not always right. We each run our own business and have our own pricing policies. And yes, people can choose to bid or not to bid. My point should have been more generalised, as I am not attacking this buyer, but talking about profiting out of shipping in general.

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Little Miss Muffet    20
Little Miss Muffet

:suspicious:Strange ethics some people have.

He has lost a customer and more will follow.

Makes absolutely no sense to me. He cant be too serious about trading on Bob.

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SProducts    10
SProducts

As Brands online has stated, I always have a problem when buyers read shipping terms, amounts and they bid. but once they have paid they start to complain about many things including assuming how much it costs to post and forgetting the seller does the actual shipping and whatever they charge is what they are prepared to post the parcel for.

But in this case, I believe the seller should be reported for the charge on insurance as its fraudulent. regardless of whether they informed you before about insurance, but charging 12% is way too much.

 

My suggestion, contact Bidorbuy about the insurance and dont mention the shipping charges as you agreed to them beforehand. Rather focus on the real problem, high insurance charge.

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa
As Brands online has stated, I always have a problem when buyers read shipping terms, amounts and they bid. but once they have paid they start to complain about many things including assuming how much it costs to post and forgetting the seller does the actual shipping and whatever they charge is what they are prepared to post the parcel for.

But in this case, I believe the seller should be reported for the charge on insurance as its fraudulent. regardless of whether they informed you before about insurance, but charging 12% is way too much.

 

My suggestion, contact Bidorbuy about the insurance and dont mention the shipping charges as you agreed to them beforehand. Rather focus on the real problem, high insurance charge.

 

Do you not agree that there should be some correlation between what a seller charges for shipping and the costs the seller incurs to ship the item? And if it's not excessive, why does the seller justify the charge by saying he had a R15 listing fee?

Edited by Seeds for Africa

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JPBon    10
JPBon

Grant I agree wholeheartedly I most often than not lose on postage but then I am known for over wrapping my parcels.

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa

Hi JP. Yes, it is not this sale. I have now said umpteen times that I am satisfied with the product and what I paid for it. My point is, that there should be some correlation between what is charged for postage and what it costs the seller to post.

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Vegar    10
Vegar

I think you are right - there should be an acceptable norm for shipping rates.

 

I would feel terrible charging R50 for an econo parcel - and then asking for insurance which was not done through the P O. - Deplorable!

 

It is illegal to charge for 'insurance' - you have to be a registered company.

 

It seems to me that we are talking simple ethics here and some people simply haven't got a conscience.

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa
I think you are right - there should be an acceptable norm for shipping rates.

 

I would feel terrible charging R50 for an econo parcel - and then asking for insurance which was not done through the P O. - Deplorable!

 

It is illegal to charge for 'insurance' - you have to be a registered company.

 

It seems to me that we are talking simple ethics here and some people simply haven't got a conscience.

 

Is it illegal to self insure?

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Vegar    10
Vegar

I am certain that it is illegal to insure if you are not a registered insurance company. Just think of the implications! Who would guarantee your payout? The seller says they would ... I have heard people SAY a lot of things ...

 

Insurance is a regulated industry - like banks.

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Vegar    10
Vegar

The last item I bought on BoB was shipped without insurance - which I added to the payment at the seller's request :disgusted:

 

They brushed it off with "Oops!"

 

Oops! - they will get a neutral.

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Libertas Computers    10
Libertas Computers

I definitely agree with you Grant. Even though I don'r with the PO and don't need packaging for my items etc I am not the best to speak here, but I do think that costs such as the packaging (don't ask me what that costs) and time at the PO as well as fuel / travelling costs should be brought into account.

 

I've seen lots of Neutral ratings from buyers saying that they paid R30 for shipping, but the PO charged R12.50 or something. But if you add costs like the wrapping and what not, you'll get there. And with various sizes etc you can't make a shipping charge for every single little item as well.

 

Other than that, the insurance isn't so nice. My question though is why take the risk of self insuring? Sure, you can make lots of profit on it, but rather play it safe and use the PO insurance. The buyer pays for it anyways..

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa

My point is very simple. What is charged for shipping must correlate to the actual cost the seller pays to pack and ship. By all means add in your TIME, packaging, vehicle costs.. Forget about the purchase I made, I am talking about the principle of what constitutes shipping costs. I dont charge what the post office charges me, that would be crazy as I would lose out. I as all buyers do, have costs to ship an item (in addittion to what they pay the post office).

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Libertas Computers    10
Libertas Computers
My point is very simple. What is charged for shipping must correlate to the actual cost the seller pays to pack and ship. By all means add in your TIME, packaging, vehicle costs.. Forget about the purchase I made, I am talking about the principle of what constitutes shipping costs. I dont charge what the post office charges me, that would be crazy as I would lose out. I as all buyers do, have costs to ship an item (in addittion to what they pay the post office).

 

I fully agree with you there!

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Little Miss Muffet    20
Little Miss Muffet

:idea:A nice big permanent indent on top of the listing page in big bold letters for filling in shipping charges should be introduced.

If it is not filled in then the listing should not be accepted just as it would not be accepted if a price was not added.

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SProducts    10
SProducts
My point is very simple. What is charged for shipping must correlate to the actual cost the seller pays to pack and ship. By all means add in your TIME, packaging, vehicle costs.. Forget about the purchase I made, I am talking about the principle of what constitutes shipping costs. I dont charge what the post office charges me, that would be crazy as I would lose out. I as all buyers do, have costs to ship an item (in addittion to what they pay the post office).

 

I have paid more than R80.00 for a parcel sent via normal post which costed about R24.00 at the post office. Because I agreed to it before hand then I couldnt complain, because I wasnt happy with that I decided not to buy from the seller again.

As much as I understand your point, its the seller's decision on how much they charge for shipping. Another point is when the buyer decides to buy and pay, they are paying for shipping costs and not post office costs.

 

I know Bidorbuy doesnt allow sellers to overcharge on shipping, but again they dont decide how much must be charged as each seller ships differently.

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mellowred    10
mellowred

R50 does not look excessive, and if extra packaging is used and time taken it would most likely be fair. But in this case Grant described the packaging - very basic and nothing extra but for some black plastic. Little time taken and minimum costs. So I can understand that the postage was seen as excessive only after the package had been received.

 

I buy very little packaging material as I use recycled boxes and polystyrene, newspapers etc. The only outlay is wrapping paper and tape. But it takes time to wrap so my "profit" covers my time - well 1/2 glass of wine to calm the nerves while pondering the minimum wage strikes :toung:.

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa

SProducts - Agreed. At the end of the day, regulation by bidorbuy not the way to go. I feel that

there should be some correlation between the cost of shipping to the seller and what is charged

to the buyer. I have clearly said that I charge more than what I pay postage. I have packaging, labelling,

My time, my vehicle costs and incidentals to recover.

 

The said seller justified there shipping charge by putting R15 listing fees down to shipping costs. By NO stretch of

the imagination is an advertising cost recoverable in shipping. That admittance by the seller makes my point of being over charged very

Valid.

 

Came accross a sellers ratings where the buyer was disgruntled having paid R400 shipping for a parcel

That cost R45 to post!!! Whether agreed or not, by no stretch of the imagination can this be coonstrued as fair.

 

And yes, if one feels you have been overcharged on shipping avoid that seller and buy from someone who has fair charges.

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Little Miss Muffet    20
Little Miss Muffet
:idea:A nice big permanent indent on top of the listing page in big bold letters for filling in shipping charges should be introduced.

If it is not filled in then the listing should not be accepted just as it would not be accepted if a price was not added.

What I meant by this was that the shipping should be easily visible not down at the bottom of the page so that it can be picked up instantly.

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Libertas Computers    10
Libertas Computers

What I meant by this was that the shipping should be easily visible not down at the bottom of the page so that it can be picked up instantly.

 

Agree with that.. Will make it easier to spot. Most buyers who've been on the forum long enough has a general idea of what they'll need to pay and skim over the shipping cost. Then comes checkout and BAM! R200..

 

@Grant, I think I should start adding listing fees in the cost of shipping. I understand what he means by what he's done, he just doesn't see it as wrong: "BoB is competitive, but if I add it to my shipping, I'll get more sales.." Perfect scheme!

 

I will be working out some success and listing fees now and add it to my shipping.. :nuts:

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa
Agree with that.. Will make it easier to spot. Most buyers who've been on the forum long enough has a general idea of what they'll need to pay and skim over the shipping cost. Then comes checkout and BAM! R200..

 

@Grant, I think I should start adding listing fees in the cost of shipping. I understand what he means by what he's done, he just doesn't see it as wrong: "BoB is competitive, but if I add it to my shipping, I'll get more sales.." Perfect scheme!

 

I will be working out some success and listing fees now and add it to my shipping.. :nuts:

 

It doesnt look like bob are taking any action against the seller for adding listing fees into a shipping charge, and if they dont take action, it could be deemed as a precedent being set. So when I max enhance an item, it should be okay to add the enhanced listing fees to the shipping cost! What next!!

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa
R50 does not look excessive, and if extra packaging is used and time taken it would most likely be fair. But in this case Grant described the packaging - very basic and nothing extra but for some black plastic. Little time taken and minimum costs. So I can understand that the postage was seen as excessive only after the package had been received.

 

I buy very little packaging material as I use recycled boxes and polystyrene, newspapers etc. The only outlay is wrapping paper and tape. But it takes time to wrap so my "profit" covers my time - well 1/2 glass of wine to calm the nerves while pondering the minimum wage strikes :toung:.

 

Wine is DEFINITELY an allowable shipping cost!!! :grin: I dont drink, but the cigarette to calm my nerves after a post office trip is a definite cost!

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