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MsPlod

Some assistance with a jewellery question please?

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MsPlod    10
MsPlod

Just intrigued here?

 

This thread (http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/selling-bidorbuy/11781-why-oh-why-false-advertising-necessary.html) was closed, and it appears that this seller may well be taking advantage of the same type of advertising?

 

Could someone clarify this for me please. Asked them a question on this item... Engagement Rings - STUNNING 4.5ct ENGAGEMENT RING for sale in Gans Bay (ID:33330789)

Wins Boutique (304 rating3.gif) verifieduser.gif has answered your question on the item - STUNNING 4.5ct ENGAGEMENT RING.

 

Your question was;

Hi - is this cubic zirconia or a lab-created diamond?

 

The answer is;

hi, these are simulated diamonds

 

And I am just interested to know from the jewellery fundis whether this is in fact a lab-created diamond or CZ?

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Cali Craft and Gems    10
Cali Craft and Gems

Hi

 

Lukeness is probably the best at explaining the differences, but basically CZ is different from a lab-created diamond which is also different from a simulated diamond. You also get Moissanite which is something entirely different again too.

 

As far as I am aware (and I stand to be corrected), the simulated diamond is the most "valuable" of the three as it is "grown" using the same "ingredients" as that of a natural diamond - if you know what I mean!

 

Lab-created diamonds are also "grown", but are less valuable than simulated ones. Sadly many sellers will state that the stones are not CZ due to partial ignorance, and partial "trying not to sound cheap".

 

I don't know about lab-created diamonds or simulated diamonds, but CZ will shatter internally when heat is applied! (I learnt from experience when a ring was resized years ago)

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Miss Jewels    10
Miss Jewels

Hi MsPlod

The below is a non existant stone! There is not such thing. There is a Lab Diamond, s simulated diamond, a cubic zirconia, but definitely not what is listed here.

This has been going on for ages, they have been warned about misleading adverts so they just change the wording.

Lukeness is the best person and he has really helped me a lot.

Feel free to send them a PM too if necessary

"Primary Stone: Lab Created Simulated Diamond"

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Miss Jewels    10
Miss Jewels
Just intrigued here?

 

This thread (http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/selling-bidorbuy/11781-why-oh-why-false-advertising-necessary.html) was closed, and it appears that this seller may well be taking advantage of the same type of advertising?

This link was started by me because of this specific seller. It relates to their listings in the past...and now they're back again with misleading ads.

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lilythepink    10
lilythepink

"The answer is; hi, these are simulated diamonds".

 

Sounds like just plain glass! I wouldn't touch this seller.

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Lukeness    10
Lukeness

Hi All,

 

Simulated diamonds can be anything that simulates. It's basically a nice word for imitation. So glass, CZ, white Sapphire, Moissanite or anything else that can be passed off as a diamond would fall into this category.

 

A CZ is simply a man made stone, completely different in all chemical and crystal structure aspects, that is often used as to simulate a diamond. The same applies to Moissanite although this is more expensive than a CZ.

 

Laboratory created (synthetic) diamonds are chemically identical (or very close to identical) to natural diamonds except that they are grown in laboratory conditions and growth time is accelerated. Genuine lab created diamonds are, like their natural counterparts, very expensive. Although not quite as much as a natural diamond. Lab diamonds are at this stage uncommon in good white colours and are more common in yellow shades.

 

This all makes claims by sellers of lab diamonds rather dubious and chances are that what is on offer is actually a lab created diamond simulant. Most likely CZ.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Luke

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MsPlod    10
MsPlod

Thank you Lukeness, CC&G, Miss Jewels and LilythePink!

 

It seems that you may well be right all of you and I will be giving this trader a very wide berth since receiving this updated answer to my question...:shock:

 

UPDATED: 23 Feb 13:31

i need to remind you that Q&A are to be used for purposes related to the sale of this item and not to start discussions about us in the forum discussing us behind our backs. i have clearance from bob to use this term and i would appreciate it if you would mind your own business. for your info all our stones are made in a lab as is every synthetic stone

 

:notrust: :twisted: :blink1:

This is me over here - minding my own business LOL!! whew.gif

 

Guess some folks might be in for a nasty shock if they get their laboratory specimen valued by a professional... ????

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Lukeness    10
Lukeness
UPDATED: 23 Feb 13:31

i need to remind you that Q&A are to be used for purposes related to the sale of this item and not to start discussions about us in the forum discussing us behind our backs. i have clearance from bob to use this term and i would appreciate it if you would mind your own business. for your info all our stones are made in a lab as is every synthetic stone

 

As far as this listing goes, the description says 'Lab Created Simulated Diamond'.

They have not claimed it is a lab created Diamond or anything else, but have, merely stated that it is lab created (they have not specified diamond, so this could fall under CZ, Sapphire, Moissanite etc) and being used as a diamond simulant. Therefore the details provided in the listing are, as far as I can see, quite correct.

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MsPlod    10
MsPlod
As far as this listing goes, the description says 'Lab Created Simulated Diamond'.

They have not claimed it is a lab created Diamond or anything else, but have, merely stated that it is lab created (they have not specified diamond, so this could fall under CZ, Sapphire, Moissanite etc) and being used as a diamond simulant. Therefore the details provided in the listing are, as far as I can see, quite correct.

Thanks Lukeness! Good point - so it is very much up to buyers to make sure that they read very carefully as usual!

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MsPlod    10
MsPlod

Just an update... and a little something from personal experience

 

Updated comment from the trader in question...

"UPDATED: 23 Feb 21:12

it is noted that you went to the forum again and continue to discuss us when we are not wrong as stated by lukeness. please refrain from using the Q&A to discuss business other than the sale of our products as it seems that you have no intention in purchasing or bidding on our product as your question was asked to start a post out of line in the forum. Please keep your comments regarding our product to yourself and refrain from doing so in the public as you stated what you think and not facts. an apology would be in order"

Good to know that the trader does follow the forum, and in my experience those with nothing to hide are usually very comfortable having issues such as these come out into a public forum for open and comfortable discussion. As so often is the case, too few traders DO follow the forum and it is wonderful that the forum is being used more and more these days. Thrilled about this!!

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lilythepink    10
lilythepink

I agree with you, MsPlod. The more we chat and debate things, the better we ultimately make things for all BoB users! It's good when all concerned realise that nothing personal is meant when things are debated but a whole lot of education is ultimately gleaned.

 

I always appreciate Lukeness' comments as they make me realise how careful we need to be about the wording of our listings and, indeed, if we are buying to read listings properly.

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Miss Jewels    10
Miss Jewels
Just an update... and a little something from personal experience

 

[/i]

Good to know that the trader does follow the forum, and in my experience those with nothing to hide are usually very comfortable having issues such as these come out into a public forum for open and comfortable discussion. As so often is the case, too few traders DO follow the forum and it is wonderful that the forum is being used more and more these days. Thrilled about this!!

Just a pity the seller does not respond on the forum but only via the Q & A. And I agree, the forum is an excellent platform for all BoB users

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f9shopper    10
f9shopper

I agree with Miss Jewels that the forum is an excellent platform for discussions and being "relatively" new on bob and in the Jewellery section, I appreciate what I can learn from others. Once again, thank you Miss Jewels for correcting me the other day on one of my listings, I really appreciated your input...it gave me some homework to do, as I would like to get it right. If a buyer feel he has been "Scammed" by a seller, he goes around and talks negatively about bob and not necessary about that one particular seller and then it start to effect all the other sellers who are trading on bob.

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Little Miss Muffet    20
Little Miss Muffet

I think users sometimes o list items incorrectly out of pure ignorance.They are listed in good faith.

Therefore, if we spot a problem we should try and question or direct the seller first before openly discussing on the forum or reporting to community watch

If we dont get a response then proceed with alternatives.

I often see things but I just shake my head and move on which is wrong ofcourse.

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ATA STAMP CENTRE    10
ATA STAMP CENTRE
I think users sometimes o list items incorrectly out of pure ignorance.They are listed in good faith.

Therefore, if we spot a problem we should try and question or direct the seller first before openly discussing on the forum or reporting to community watch

If we dont get a response then proceed with alternatives.

I often see things but I just shake my head and move on which is wrong ofcourse.

HI

i agree we should all do more when we see something that is not correct.I do not have the time to police all listings but sometimes something odd catches my eys.I always give the benefit to the seller and will first send him a question starting with "if this causes embarassment then delete the question after you have read it and answered me".I will then point out the error and give him/her the opportunity to correct the mistake-If i get a smart alec answer or the seller does not reply i then presume he wishes to intentionally mislead potential buyers.I will then report to community watch for further action but only after the seller has had the opportunity to correct the listing-I think that is fair.

NEIL

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TheJeweller    10
TheJeweller

The problem is much wider, Sellers purposely misleading customers.

18ctGP. Not everybody know what it means, this is why this ring

was sold for R400.00

Simulated Diamond. That means Imitation.

I was one of the first jewellers in the world who hold first man-made diamond

of a big size- 0.50ct. It was grown in laboratory and identical to the

natural diamond, the only colour is defer. (it can be tasted in lab today)

In 1996 my ex boss (in Welkom) show me article in magazine which he subscribed

from USA, first man made diamond from Siberia in US.

 

What I see here on bob I can not even start talk about.

People get mislead with different kind of words.

Diffusion and so on.

 

With today's technology it is possible to create in lab just about anything.

I wont be surprised in many gemstones sold on bob are lab created.

There is a warning though, lets say I purchased a, Sapphire and sold

to costumer as a real thing. Then person go and test the stone to verify

if its real.

What if its not? The lawyer get to work.

He come to me and I send him to a seller.

 

Somehow nobody think about that.

But that could happened.

 

I have purchased here a few gems that was lab created,

well my qualification allow me recognise them but many

people will go to a specialist. To a lab.

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Little Miss Muffet    20
Little Miss Muffet

If I listed a 9ctGP ring I would specify "9ct Gold plated " because GP means nothing .

I had a tooth set in a very gold looking setting on Wed crazy and it looks and feels like gold.

Gold was often used for these paticular vintage items.

I tested it and it did not test gold but because of the gold look I know buyers could be mislead so I specifically stated the setting is not gold.

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TheJeweller    10
TheJeweller

Let me show you a typical example.

 

Rubies - 70 ct HUGE OVAL CORUNDUM PIGEON BLOOD RED RUBY Gemstone for sale in Mossel Bay (ID:33043923)

Treatment: Corundum.

 

What does this means? Real? Synthetic?

Corundum. AI2O3 - Aluminium oxide.

Corundum is natural mineral, it is formed by contact metamorphism between alumina-rich magmas and related pegmatites and limestone, or by regional metamorphism of alumina-rich silica-poor rocks.

 

If corundum is not a treatment then what does that means?

That means only one thing.

It is a laboratory grown ruby, used corundum as a base material.

But how many people know that?

Now you give me your wild guess what this description means.

Topaz - 12.65 ct AMAZING BLOOD RED EMERALD CUT RUBY GEMSTONE for sale in Mossel Bay (ID:33197408)

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MsPlod    10
MsPlod
Let me show you a typical example.

 

Rubies - 70 ct HUGE OVAL CORUNDUM PIGEON BLOOD RED RUBY Gemstone for sale in Mossel Bay (ID:33043923)

Treatment: Corundum.

 

What does this means? Real? Synthetic?

Corundum. AI2O3 - Aluminium oxide.

Corundum is natural mineral, it is formed by contact metamorphism between alumina-rich magmas and related pegmatites and limestone, or by regional metamorphism of alumina-rich silica-poor rocks.

 

If corundum is not a treatment then what does that means?

That means only one thing.

It is a laboratory grown ruby, used corundum as a base material.

But how many people know that?

Now you give me your wild guess what this description means.

Topaz - 12.65 ct AMAZING BLOOD RED EMERALD CUT RUBY GEMSTONE for sale in Mossel Bay (ID:33197408)

Eish!!!!! ratlos.gif

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lilythepink    10
lilythepink
Let me show you a typical example.

 

Rubies - 70 ct HUGE OVAL CORUNDUM PIGEON BLOOD RED RUBY Gemstone for sale in Mossel Bay (ID:33043923)

Treatment: Corundum.

 

What does this means? Real? Synthetic?

Corundum. AI2O3 - Aluminium oxide.

Corundum is natural mineral, it is formed by contact metamorphism between alumina-rich magmas and related pegmatites and limestone, or by regional metamorphism of alumina-rich silica-poor rocks.

 

If corundum is not a treatment then what does that means?

That means only one thing.

It is a laboratory grown ruby, used corundum as a base material.

But how many people know that?

Now you give me your wild guess what this description means.

Topaz - 12.65 ct AMAZING BLOOD RED EMERALD CUT RUBY GEMSTONE for sale in Mossel Bay (ID:33197408)

 

Seems people are giving themselves more and more liberty with words - if one says too much perhaps it will help to confuse everyone?

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TheJeweller    10
TheJeweller

What would you called a Princes ring.

A Princes Ring!

What would you called this.

**R25 000**1/2 CT G/SI PRINCESS CERTIFIED DIAMOND ENGAGEMENT RING GH/SI

A Princes certified diamond?

A Diamond engagement ring?

This is what I see: 1/2 ct G/SI princes certified diamond - engagement ring.

Is the people totally loosing it?

Gold - **R25 000**1/2 CT G/SI PRINCESS CERTIFIED DIAMOND ENGAGEMENT RING GH/SI for sale in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:33596791)

 

Come on, we all need money but don't go over the edge.

Will description like this drop the sale?

1/2 CT Certified Diamond Engagement "Princess" Ring. Value- R25.000

 

Maybe I am over the edge, you tell me.

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meeks    10
meeks
What would you called a Princes ring.

A Princes Ring!

What would you called this.

**R25 000**1/2 CT G/SI PRINCESS CERTIFIED DIAMOND ENGAGEMENT RING GH/SI

A Princes certified diamond?

A Diamond engagement ring?

This is what I see: 1/2 ct G/SI princes certified diamond - engagement ring.

Is the people totally loosing it?

Gold - **R25 000**1/2 CT G/SI PRINCESS CERTIFIED DIAMOND ENGAGEMENT RING GH/SI for sale in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:33596791)

 

Come on, we all need money but don't go over the edge.

Will description like this drop the sale?

1/2 CT Certified Diamond Engagement "Princess" Ring. Value- R25.000

 

Maybe I am over the edge, you tell me.

 

I am by no means a "fundi" when it comes to gems (the genuine gems like in the Gemstone ie; Rubies, emeralds, diamonds category" but as far as I know Princess ring would/could refer to the cut/style of the diamond "Princess cut diamond) I am sure someone like Cali Craft and Gems can put you on the right path with this query.

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Lukeness    10
Lukeness

Yes, it could refer to a Princess Cut diamond. However the image in the listing is of a round brilliant cut stone so it cannot be that.

I would like to see the picture of the actual ring though as the diamond in that picture look proportionately MUCH larger than 1/2 a carat.

I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't an error caused when using a previous listing as a template and not changing it properly.

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