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Algreco

Another coin stolen - 1943 1D MS66BN

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lilythepink
All coins are worth something and every coin deserves to be in a collection. Regrettably the two specimens you've showed here would be regarded as filler or entry level coins and both shows corroded surfaces. A few rand perhaps on a good day. Sorry!

 

Thanks, 4Kids! I won't be popping open the champagne! lol

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unccoins

South Africa Penny 1943 PCGS MS66BN Finest Known

 

To All,

I have been reading your comments for a while now, and as I am also a member of this site, I thought it is time for me to get involved. On the 5th of January 2011, I sold a very rare coin on ebay (item: 320636266163, South Africa One Penny 1943 PCGS MS66BN), the finest known in the world from both NGC and PCGS census. I sent the coin to the buyer via Registered airmail, signed for, on the 7th of January, tracking number: RT166726326CY. The buyer opened a case against me because “ The package was tampered with as there was masking tape where the package was originally sealed. The package contains no items - 1943 Penny graded MS66BN by NGC”. The coin was sent in a professional envelope from the Cyprus post office and there was no way it could have opened by its self unless someone did. I even put extra glue. The coin was sent via registered airmail without mentioning on the outside of the envelope the value of the coin, as the buyers requested. Of course I did this as he explained it was due to security reasons. I have done this for other buyers also that request this as to avoid paying high Taxes. The Cypriot post office is very reliable as I have been sending and receiving coins for many years worldwide and never had a problem. Of course if the buyer asked for any other courier method I would have taken it into consideration.

Having been to South Africa and also being married to a South African, I am well aware of the crime rate down there. Isn’t it possible that the coin was stolen at the post office there? Or maybe by the post man/woman?? Or even at customs?

I do understand the buyers position and as I explained to him, I will provide him with all the information he needs to prove that the coin left Cyprus well sealed.

Why would I do something so stupid as to destroy my name for USD 1136. I have sold coins for double and triple that price. Why would I put myself in the position for paypal to freeze that amount in my account?? Where is the logic??? So yes, I am a victim in this case as much as the buyer is!! Why should it be my fault for the crime that has taken place? I did everything right from my side!

As I mentioned earlier I will do everything possible to assist the buyer in solving this case!

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JPBon

Hope you both get this solved.

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dstorm

Hello Unccoins

Perhaps, as a stamp dealer, I might be intruding / off topic, but just the following.

Some time ago there was a stamp dealer who managed to obtain / intercept parcels coming to RSA from overseas. He obviously had connections in the post office / customs working for him. It was obviously easy to provide the potential “helper” with a list of regular “senders” and “receivers” in the stamp field.

The same could apply to coins.

Regards

Jacques

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unccoins

To dstorm (Jaqcue)

 

Thank you for your post.You just prooving a point regarding the post office in RSA.:smile:

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geejay50

Hello Unccoins,

I thank you for your honest input, the jury is still out on this incident and we have the word of the buyer that he did not open the parcel himself and then claim that the item was stolen. That way he can have the coin reslabbed and keep the paypal refund.Anything is possible.

Geejay

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4kids
Hello Unccoins,

I thank you for your honest input, the jury is still out on this incident and we have the word of the buyer that he did not open the parcel himself and then claim that the item was stolen. That way he can have the coin reslabbed and keep the paypal refund.Anything is possible.

Geejay

 

I am sure the two parties will resolve this as I have not reason to question any of their integrities.

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Algreco

I must say this is quite an irresponsible comment to make in light of the situation

 

Hello Unccoins,

 

I thank you for your honest input, the jury is still out on this incident and we have the word of the buyer that he did not open the parcel himself and then claim that the item was stolen. That way he can have the coin reslabbed and keep the paypal refund.Anything is possible.

 

Geejay]

 

 

The package was opened in front of the Post Master himself after suspecting that the package had been compromised. Shortly after, a claim was submitted to the local postal authorities and an investigation into the matter has been launched - whether it may bare any fruit is still to be determined.

 

Additionally, I have an open dispute with paypal, but that is just a process that needs to be followed. Both Kyriacos and I are victims of a random event of theft and my intention in making this post was to inform the public to keep their eyes peeled just in case the coin pops up somewhere.

 

Word of advice Georg - Think before you speak!

Edited by Algreco

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Guest Guest

Bring back the stick

 

I seem to recall that a few years ago Hendrick van Noordwijk (of SACGS) said on this forum on BoB that he got a large parcel of confiscated coins sold on "auction". I seem to recall he said there were only two bidders and they shared the spoils rather than bid against each other.

 

These valuable coins were apparently confiscated coming in by post at Jan Smuts and the issue was evading VAT and the coins were sold on auction that only two coin dealers knew about.

 

He might be able to assist you both in this through his contacts...

 

I might be wrong - but I am pretty sure that was the essence of the discussion.

 

A couple of years ago I had a similar thing happen to me - a rare Bechuanaland medallion sent from the UK to Australia. The envelope was carefully slit and the medallion removed. The seller was in the UK and refunded me my money because he took the blame for not packaging the piece better. Scanners are dangerous in the wrong hands.

 

PS I am still waiting for my copies of Milner Snell's books on tokens sent by registered airmail in November from Kokstad. I am not holding my breath. A couple of years ago I sent Milner some coins by registered airmail and they sat in the Kokstad Post Office for six months despite Milner asking after them (yes the address was right). Can you believe this? After six months the coins were returned to me as "undelivered". My second attempt to send the coins in a package around the evidence of non delivery was (happily) successful!

 

Maybe the 1870s Mount Currie postal service, with a runner carrying the mail in a stick, should be reintroduced! The books would probably be here by now.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

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Algreco
Hello Unccoins,

I thank you for your honest input, the jury is still out on this incident and we have the word of the buyer that he did not open the parcel himself and then claim that the item was stolen. That way he can have the coin reslabbed and keep the paypal refund.Anything is possible.

Geejay

 

Additionally, if I attempt to sell you guys a reslabbed 1943 penny, here are some extra fine pics to make sure you guys are receiving the same coin in question:

!CBPkZz!BWk~$(KGrHqUOKjUE0Qzk!5PBBNG2HfcO0w~~_12.JPG

 

!CBPkVOQBmk~$(KGrHqEOKj8EzTtOy)fvBNG2HS0HEg~~_12.JPG

 

!CBPkeJgCGk~$(KGrHqEOKogEy+jC0R+9BNG2HsYf9!~~_12.JPG

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Guest Guest

The Jury is NOT "still out" - it was never established

 

Hi Nick

 

It is so easy to judge others.. don't take it personally! (I speak from experience)

 

For the record I am certain that neither you, the buyer, nor the seller in this case took the coin.

 

In my view someone in postal services got smart in the middle - see my post above. Let's hope he/she does not read this forum and tries to sell it on BoB

 

For the record only courts judge guilt on cases involving criminality and until proven guilty you are innocent - that is the law we all live under.

 

As I said before you have demonstrated (as has the seller) that you both have integrity so we should look at the obvious before it hits us hard in the face!

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

Edited by ndoa18

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4kids

unccoins and Algreco

 

I have posted to both of you a PM (Private Message) through the forum platform. Please have a look!

 

Regards

Jan

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lilythepink
Maybe the 1870s Mount Currie postal service, with a runner carrying the mail in a stick, should be reintroduced! The books would probably be here by now.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

 

Perhaps we should start training carrier pigeons - not sure that cockatoos can be relied upon with precious cargo!

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4kids
Perhaps we should start training carrier pigeons - not sure that cockatoos can be relied upon with precious cargo!

 

Better still, let's cross carrier pigeons with the cockatoos. At least this way they can ask directions if they get lost...lol..

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lilythepink
Better still, let's cross carrier pigeons with the cockatoos. At least this way they can ask directions if they get lost...lol..

 

Good grief! Would a pigeon then have a cockatoo beak, or vice versa? It would be hilarious!

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MsPlod
Better still, let's cross carrier pigeons with the cockatoos. At least this way they can ask directions if they get lost...lol..

LOL! That was a laugh out loud one - lovely!!

 

Guess you would have to call them a cockacoo coo coo coo

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geejay50

Hi Nick,

I certainly did think before making that reply and am simply offering another explanation which from what your original posting said, was possible. You now say that the parcel which athough alledgedly opened by someone else was then opened in front of the postmaster. Why didnt you say so in the first place when you did the posting?

We have had an allegation on this forum of a blankpond disappearing at the hands of a courier coming back from Heritage where the owner was not willing to give us the waybill number a few months later so that we could independently track the shipment.

Geejay

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Algreco
Hi Nick,

 

I certainly did think before making that reply and am simply offering another explanation which from what your original posting said, was possible. You now say that the parcel which athough alledgedly opened by someone else was then opened in front of the postmaster. Why didnt you say so in the first place when you did the posting?

 

We have had an allegation on this forum of a blankpond disappearing at the hands of a courier coming back from Heritage where the owner was not willing to give us the waybill number a few months later so that we could independently track the shipment.

 

Geejay

 

 

 

You certainly are blowing things out of proportion.

 

My original intent in posting on this forum was to make people aware of the fact that there was a coin stolen. If an explanation is warranted , I have all the proof that is neccessary to nullify any suspicion brought about by your nonsensical postings.

 

In summary:

The original seal (of the package) was compromised, and resealed with masking tape - The seller has been made well aware of this fact. How was I to know that he did not use masking tape to seal the item in the first place? After seeing the presentation of the package and feeling for the contents I immediately made the postmaster aware of the fact that there could potentially be a problem with the package. In order to conclusively prove that the contents were missing, he (the postmaster) suggested that I open the package in front of him.

 

Thereafter, claim forms were issued to me which needed to be completed. A letter was also sent to the postmaster general to request that this matter should be investigated further. If you or any other person for that matter requires any of the aforementioned documentation I will be more than willing to oblige!

Edited by Algreco

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MsPlod

Algreco and Geejay ...

chillout.gif

Discuss the facts - coin stolen, buyer and seller appear to be blameless - most likely somewhere along the postal route...

 

Hope this gets resolved fast, not good news at all!

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

Coin grading-advice needed please

 

HI ALL

I deal mainly in stamps but do have a large coin collection as well that i have been holding onto-Lots of union silver and bronze coins, some rarer dates and many viewed with the naked eye are better condition than many mint state coins that i have seen graded and slabbed-I have decided as i get time to have the better union coins graded-

What i need to know is now that sacgs is based in capetown it is convenient as the prices are R80 per coin for 10 or more and there is no customs or security hassle and sending away and waiting a long time-but will the market pay similar prices to the other more well known grading companies?or will i have to hold onto the coins until sacgs is recoginised and attains good prices as well-

What do experienced collectors advise-i am in no hurry to sell but would like to start grading the better coins soon.My stamps keep me so busy but every now and then it is great to break form stamps and go through my coins and then my interest picks up again.

NEIL

sorry this was meant to be a new post but somehow ended up here-apologies

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unccoins

To ALL,

 

I must answer to all of you that the policy at the Cyprus post office is that no envelope can be accepted if there is masking tape on it or any envelope resealed with any other method.

IT IS FORBIDEN TO PUT MASKING TAPE OR RESEALED ENVELOPES ESPECIALY FOR REGISTERED AND DATA POST PACKAGES.

Thus i never put any masking tape or resealed the envelope. If i did so then the envelope would never left Cyprus.

 

Thank you,

unccoins

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Algreco

Hi Kyriacos

 

Thank you for your post. This is one of the reasons of me being suspicious of the package in the first place - A strip of masking tape stuck across the original (compromised) seal.

 

 

Cheers

Nick

Edited by Algreco

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Guest Guest

Its all in the name... and keeping your powder dry

 

4kids says...

 

Better still, let's cross carrier pigeons with the cockatoos. At least this way they can ask directions if they get lost...lol..
I think you might be onto something there! One of my neighbours has cockatoos and another pigeons.. I will see if we can trial a pair mating - if successful what do we call the chicks?

 

cockeons or pigatoos? (Footnote: no offence meant to Lily's cockatoo.. I know he is a soldier.. :) - I promise to apologise in person in the near future.. lol

 

On a more serious note.. Nick and Kyriacos everyone here on BoB is now aware of the theft of this coin in the postal service. And, I believe, that was both your intentions - not some fanciful finger pointing exercise. If that coin gets offered for sale on BoB or eBay someone will alert you - and this is quite likely to happen sooner rather than later unless the thief has a friend who collects coins.

 

Some thoughts...

If someone on the forum sees the coin listed give Nick and Kyriacos the details - DO NOT contact the seller.

 

In the event the coin is listed on BoB I suggest contacting Cuan by PM. He will know about this case through this thread again your decision to make this public was a good one.

 

If on eBay a better way to go is to check the location of the seller and then get someone in that country (probably S Africa) to place the winning bid (not either of you). As the winner he will have the contact details of the seller which can then be provided to either of you for a formal police complaint. In both cases it is imperative that the person who lists the coin is not alerted to what is going on.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

Edited by ndoa18

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Algreco
On a more serious note.. Nick and Kyriacos everyone here on BoB is now aware of the theft of this coin in the postal service. And, I believe, that was both your intentions - not some fanciful finger pointing exercise. If that coin gets offered for sale on BoB or eBay someone will alert you - and this is quite likely to happen sooner rather than later unless the thief has a friend who collects coins.

 

Thank you for the support Scott.

 

I would also like to make mention of the fact that both Kyriacos and I have managed to resolve our paypal dispute amicably without further recourse to any party. Additionally, I would also like to thank Jan Kleynhans (4KIDS) for his advice and support.

 

Cheers

Nick

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4kids
Thank you for the support Scott.

 

I would also like to make mention of the fact that both Kyriacos and I have managed to resolve our paypal dispute amicably without further recourse to any party. Additionally, I would also like to thank Jan Kleynhans (4KIDS) for his advice and support.

 

Cheers

Nick

 

 

Thank you Nick. Wonderful news! news. I knew that the matter could be resolved.

 

Now we must just meet sometime.

 

Regards

Jan

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