How to avoid paying success fees

[Cali Craft and Gems 10]

One of my buyers contacted me this evening with regards to an order he placed with another seller - I was shocked at what he showed me! He sent me a screen shot of his transaction where he was trying to complete the order and freaked out when he saw the calculated postage at over R3119!!!

 

Seller: Items for sale from Damahek on bidorbuy.co.za

 

By example, listing: Natural Beads - Natural Rose Quartz gemstone beads: average of 6mm each for sale in Cape Town (ID:29909068)

 

220 beads available at 1c each BUT (!) seller charges R40 to put ONE bead into the packet and 70c per additional bead into the same packet.

 

Therefore, if you order all 220 beads, they will cost you R2.20 (remember that success fees will only be paid on this amount), and another R193.30 on postage alone!!!

 

Add in a few other beads from other listings (with combining fees varying from a few cents to many rands) and the shipping cost is ridiculous!

 

In addition to this "sin", the seller is also charging 2.5% for insurance although it won't really make much extra for him / her as it is calculated on the total of the order excluding the shipping and combining fees!

 

Attached is the image of the calculated shipping costs my poor buyer has to sit up with - he is reporting this to BoB as soon as possible!

Edited December 16, 2010 by Cali Craft and Gems

[JPBon 10]

WOW thats all I can say

[brands online 10]

Insurance = 2,5% of Order Value (illegal) R30-42 = R0,77

 

So if the parcel goes missing buyer will get refunded R30-42 for his parcel he paid R3119-57 too....

 

Seller Verified

 

:suspicious::sneaky::evil:

[Cali Craft and Gems 10]

Ok - now for the real shock:

 

I've gone through the "items recently sold" by this seller and have collected the following info:

Listing number - qty x combining fee = total

29823838 - 150 x R0.70 = R105

29840247 - 245 x R3.00 = R735

29825046 - 190 x R2.00 = R380

29558969 - 75 x R2.00 = R150

29558978 - 343 x R2.00 = R686

29556810 - 195 x R0.70 = R136.50

29840259 - 145 x R2.00 = R290

29840254 - 250 x R3.00 = R750

29674178 - 45 x R2.00 = R90

29558982 - 60 x R2.00 = R120

29558973 - 29 x R3.00 = R87

29559394 - 100 x R0.70 = R70

29558961 - 100 x R3.00 = R300

29558962 - 50 x R5.00 = R250

29556794 - 100 x R0.30 = R30

29391479 - 1000 x R0.20 = R200

29170436 - 145 x R1.00 = R145

29260749 - 15 x R5.00 = R75

28983345 - 150 x R1.00 = R150

29072451 - 250 x R3.00 = R750

28947137 - 100 x R2.00 = R200

28902123 - 145 x R1.00 = R145

29024661 - 200 x R0.20 = R40

29024660 - 75 x R1.00 = R75

29114887 - 100 x R3.00 = R300

29071200 - 100 x R0.70 = R70

28605732 - 49 x R2.00 = R98

28605731 - 40 x R3.00 = R120

28605336 - 195 x R0.70 = R136.5

28822178 - 55 x R4.00 = R220

 

With a lovely total of R6904 that the seller has managed to pocket and pay ZERO success fees on!

 

Wake up BoB - you're being short changed here big time! How long has this seller been getting away with this? The above totals are only from the last few transactions!

[eZethu Coins 10]

In addition to this "sin", the seller is also charging 2.5% for insurance although it won't really make much extra for him / her as it is calculated on the total of the order excluding the shipping and combining fees!

 

 

Petty crime, but still - I have noticed a trend in this regard - overcharging and making money from insurance.

[MsPlod 10]

Has your buyer contacted Damahek to confirm this?

 

If you look at Damahek's shipping descriptions this is part of the gumf...

 

"--- PLEASE NOTE: BidorBuy's calculating system is written to calculate the combining fee per item. On auctions with more than one item the combining fee will be per item therefore per gem. Please note that there might be a different combining fee on different auctions. Lesser combining fee on smaller items"

 

This seller may simply not have worked out how to use the shipping calculations properly. If your buyer simply checks with Damahek - one just changes the shipping amount. Have also had something like this happen and it really can be simply resolved by contacting the trader.

 

Just a note is that Damahek's ratings are too high for this to be something that is going on.

[mellowred 10]

MsPlod may be right. The problem is BoBs Shipping Calculator does not allow for charges per KG only per item.

 

When I first used the new Shipping Charges feature I set it up as R30 first item and "additional items - no charge" which is right as I don't charge to combine.

 

However, I had a couple of sales where the combined weight moved over to the next KG. I then had to inform buyers that their postage was more than I had advertised. Not on in my book.

 

I detest "hidden costs" so I have changed the automatic shipping charges to R5 per additional item with a disclaimer similar to Damahek's. So if someone were to purchase 10 light items that totalled less than 1kg BoB would calculate R30 + R45 (9 x R5) = R75 for postage. My calculation would only be R30.

[qball 12]

We are busy investigating this and the seller has been contacted in this regard.

 

Effective immediately we have instituted a 5% penalty fee to be charged on excessive shipping fees. We have updated our Listing policy today.

[kyle2 10]

Yaaaay!

But is there a guide as to what is excessive and what is acceptable, if not, will one be provided?

[Cali Craft and Gems 10]

In reply to Ms Plod's entry, one must keep in mind that the seller is not charging the buyer the combining fee on the "entire" listing (whether you bought one or 100 beads) or per type, but on each and every little bead that he / she puts into the packet.

 

In other words, the seller is making up his selling price via the combining fee which in turn is circumventing the success fee as this is not charged on shipping.

 

To do this transaction correctly (or honestly), the seller should list the beads at the final price they are wanting - ie. 71c per bead instead of selling it at 1c then charging 70c to put it in the packet!

 

It is about time that seller's like this are driven out into the open - it only takes one unsuspecting buyer to support someone like this, pay a couple of hundred if not thousand rands on shipping, notice that they are only charged under R20 by the post office and then go on to complain! Word of mouth travels fast if there is something positive to say, and at the speed of light when it is negative - ultimately giving BoB and all other sellers a bad name!

[qball 12]

Yaaaay!

But is there a guide as to what is excessive and what is acceptable, if not, will one be provided?

 

We cannot supply a guide, based on every seller's individual shipping charges, variety of shipping methods, costs, etc. bidorbuy will investigate and will determine what is excessive, at our discretion.

[wayjen 10]

As I have said on many occasions the shipping function is not right and mellowred has just mentioned that too.

[mellowred 10]

Effective immediately we have instituted a 5% penalty fee to be charged on excessive shipping fees. We have updated our Listing policy today.

 

That is good news.

 

As I have said on many occasions the shipping function is not right and mellowred has just mentioned that too.

 

It may work for the majority of users, but does not work for me. Or anyone that works fairly just by weight. But once in it you can't get out - so I've just had to work around it. Problem is, not being a buyer I'm not sure what the buyers "see" when browsing. Does the detail on the listing stand out, or the shipping fee at the bottom(?):wondering:

[importjunction 10]

Hi, sorry i know this might not be the right place to ask but you guys seem to know a bit about shipping. What would the right postage charge be for an item of 21kgs? I want to post a listing for inflatable jet skis but have no idea what shipping would be and i'm trying to find out but so far not many places have been able to help me. Thanks for the help!

[Cali Craft and Gems 10]

Hi. Keep in mind that your parcel would be size dependant, but based on the information provided in the SAPO booklet on page 13, the following is what the SAPO should charge you:

 

1st kg is R30.20 plus an additional R4.05 per kg or part thereof - so for a 21kg parcel, the cost should be: R30.20 + (R4.05 x 20) = R111.20

 

The size limitations for the parcel are a maximum length of 1m plus the total girth should be no more than 2m (with a maximum weight restriction of 30kg).

 

Hope this helps, but to be on the safe side, you can enquire at your local SAPO branch!

[ATA STAMP CENTRE 49]

HI

The cheapest option If you use the sa post office then you can use ordinary parcel with tracking number.The cost is R30,20 for the ist kg and then R4.05 for each additional kilo-so 21 kg will cost you R111.20-The parcel must not exceed 1metre in length!!Do not forget to add a bit extra for your packaging material etc /Hopes this helps,You may offer insurance on this at 2%of declared value to maximum of R5000

NEIL

[eZethu Coins 10]

We are busy investigating this and the seller has been contacted in this regard.

 

Effective immediately we have instituted a 5% penalty fee to be charged on excessive shipping fees. We have updated our Listing policy today.

 

For they are jolly good fellows, .......!!!!!

[ATA STAMP CENTRE 49]

[quote name=qbal

 

Effective immediately we have instituted a 5% penalty fee to be charged on excessive shipping fees. We have updated our Listing policy today.[/quote]

I Cannot see how this will help.Some will just add that penalty to their shipping costs which will lead to more excessive postage and think that bob is condoning this.I think warnings and disablement for a period of time will be more effective in putting an end to this practise.

neil

[BumbleBabe 10]

I Cannot see how this will help.Some will just add that penalty to their shipping costs which will lead to more excessive postage and think that bob is condoning this.I think warnings and disablement for a period of time will be more effective in putting an end to this practise.

neil

 

Agree with you Neil

[lilythepink 11]

Well I, for one, am grateful to hear that BoB is actually trying to do something positive to prevent people charging outrageous shipping costs. And I think the 5% penalty will go a long way to stopping this practice!

 

Imagine people adding 5% penalty fee onto their shipping charges - their sales will be grossly affected and they will be the losers in the long run.

[MsPlod 10]

We are busy investigating this and the seller has been contacted in this regard.

 

Effective immediately we have instituted a 5% penalty fee to be charged on excessive shipping fees. We have updated our Listing policy today.

yay yay yay yay yay yay yay!!!!

Yaaaay!

But is there a guide as to what is excessive and what is acceptable, if not, will one be provided?

Agreed Kyle2! It is imperative that a very clear policy be formulated, with acceptable and unacceptable limits attached.

 

SAPO insurance @ 2% is very clear, but shipping charges will require a black and white policy statement (this could include a sliding scale) of some sort to protect those traders selling heavier items (and fragile ones) and weed out those traders whose strategy is to load the costs onto the shipping and thereby:

1) avoid paying success fees;

2) dupe unsuspecting buyers into paying ridiculous shipping charges for low cost items (which chases away potentially good buyers AND gives BoB a bad name...);

3) cause unnecessary time wastage on the part of BoB admin - trying to assess whether or not the trader's shipping is acceptable or not within an "iffy" framework/guideline, because there will be a considerable increase in the number of reports to CW for something like this and if the policy is not clear it is likely that many of those CW reports will be time-wasting for BoB; and,

4) allow those traders whose attitude sucks to keep getting away with "it" because they argue that it is a guideline and not a policy.

[ATA STAMP CENTRE 49]

LILY-The sellers will just increase their shipping charge to cover the 5% and not really say its a penalty that is why the bob penalty will not be effective

MSPLOD-I think our new years mission will be to try and convince bob to implement an effecient and workable shipping and postage guideline for all sellers as you propose as this is way more important than many are aware.I do not have official figures but i am sure that the most snc filed are due to buyers not being aware of these high shipping costs before bidding and not completing the transaction when they become aware of the shipping charges-Just look at stormintcup for an example of this.

neil

[qball 12]

I Cannot see how this will help.Some will just add that penalty to their shipping costs which will lead to more excessive postage and think that bob is condoning this.I think warnings and disablement for a period of time will be more effective in putting an end to this practise.

neil

 

bob will not condone this nor will it be acceptable for sellers to charge the buyer the 5%, if the seller does do this we can further "disciplinary steps" against them, including warnings, banning them, disabling, removing their ability to sell etc. Simply disabling a seller will not bring an end to this issue. Rather get the seller to work with us to resolve these issues.

[qball 12]

LILY-The sellers will just increase their shipping charge to cover the 5% and not really say its a penalty that is why the bob penalty will not be effective

MSPLOD-I think our new years mission will be to try and convince bob to implement an effecient and workable shipping and postage guideline for all sellers as you propose as this is way more important than many are aware.I do not have official figures but i am sure that the most snc filed are due to buyers not being aware of these high shipping costs before bidding and not completing the transaction when they become aware of the shipping charges-Just look at stormintcup for an example of this.

neil

 

Unfortunately we will not be implementing any guidelines or a specific policy outlining what is and is not acceptable. It is reasonable to assume that if the PO charges 2%, so should the seller, this does not have to be written "into law", as such.

 

As we have previously explained - we cannot write any guidelines or policies around such an issue, purely because of the multitude of different shipping options available, differing costs, insurances charged, seller location etc.

 

Please report suspected high shipping charges to communitywatch@bidorbuy.co.za and we will continue to act upon it.

 

Thank you.

Cuan

[lilythepink 11]

Cuan - thank you (and BoB) so very, very much. It is definitely necessary to watch sellers who overcharge on shipping/postage and try to recoup their expenses that way! If they cannot afford to lose out once in a while on an auction, then they shouldn't be listing things for auction and rather choose "buy now" and state their price. I believe that the 5% penalty will drastically curb the shipping/postage rip-offs.