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ATA STAMP CENTRE

HI

All good and well that the seller is co-operating and refunds etc but what puzzles me is did he have stock on hand to sell or was he taking buyers money first and then trying to buy stock to supply.I think this trend is happening way too much now and lots of chancers will do this-One item is listed and they say 5 are available so they 5 buyers and receive money for 5 items.But they only had one or two so they send those out and receive the positive ratings and then start trying to buy the other items with your money and then supply you!!!Also they use the terms 14 days to supply and ship to hide the way they do business.

It comes down to the fact that if the seller does not have goods on hand and he is not a registerd dropsh#$&er-then to me it constitutes fraud to take money for items you cannot supply.Before i get told i am accusing someone i am not and only stating the facts as i see them and what i believe is happening not just here but with many other sellers as well

NEIL

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qball

Guys, please look up the definition of fraud. The seller was importing the phones and had delays at customs, this resulted in this situation. As a result some buyers have waited for their phones and have started receiving them, others are requesting refunds which the seller is busy with. This does NOT constitute fraud, nor does taking your money and waiting for the goods to arrive from overseas. Yes, the seller did not have permission to do this and should have had the stock. However, what would you prefer - no item or no refund? The seller has been given the opportunity to rectify this matter.

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qball
Hello Cuan

 

I really do not understand your last post.

 

Every time I list an item. I am forced to click that I am CONTRATUALLY BOUND to complete all sales.

 

Where does this refund thing come into the scheme?

 

I am not being facetious. I really want to know why the rules are not being consistently applied.

 

Thanks and regards

 

Jacques

 

Yes, just as this seller is bound to supply the goods or refund you.If he cannot supply the goods due to this delay, he will refund you.

Edited by qball

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ATA STAMP CENTRE
Guys, please look up the definition of fraud. The seller was importing the phones and had delays at customs, this resulted in this situation. As a result some buyers have waited for their phones and have started receiving them, others are requesting refunds which the seller is busy with. This does NOT constitute fraud, nor does taking your money and waiting for the goods to arrive from overseas. Yes, the seller did not have permission to do this and should have had the stock. However, what would you prefer - no item or no refund? The seller has been given the opportunity to rectify this matter.

In South African law fraud is widely defined as the unlawful and intentional misrepresentation which can lead to the actual or potential disadvantage to another individual or group.

Fraud is also most often a crime of OPPORTUNITY which as we know occurs daily on BOB.

Whether it was unlawful i do not know but he was acting against bob rules and if there was intentional misrepresentation only the seller will know and that would be for a court to decide.

Bottom line is sellers that have now done this or broken the rules should have to be verified for future trading on BOB and if they cannot be verified then they should not be allowed to trade again on the site.

I appreciate the fact that you go out to bat for these sellers and try to resolve all issues in the best interests of firstly BOB,THEN SELLER,THEN BUYER.

However i think the buyers are the backbone and they need all the protection available as one bad experience by a buyer will put him off the site for life and he will inform many people of his bad experience.Irresponsible or fraudulent sellers simply take their warning and go along merrily or open different account and resume their illegal ways.

Please note that BOB is a terrific site and i am very happy to be part of this great team to be able to trade responsibly and in a secure financial environment but we have to weed out these irresponsible traders for the future benefit of BOB and all great sellers and buyers alike

NEIL

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SProducts
Guys, please look up the definition of fraud. The seller was importing the phones and had delays at customs, this resulted in this situation. As a result some buyers have waited for their phones and have started receiving them, others are requesting refunds which the seller is busy with. This does NOT constitute fraud, nor does taking your money and waiting for the goods to arrive from overseas. Yes, the seller did not have permission to do this and should have had the stock. However, what would you prefer - no item or no refund? The seller has been given the opportunity to rectify this matter.

 

I have this same problem with customs, there are delays with items coming into the country. Some items have left China on 16 November and even today when I call customs they are still not in the country. Some buyer dont have patience and they start to think you stole their money and you are forced to refund others and wait for the goods.

Unfortunately for me, most of the products are sent directly to the buyer and refunding is impossible as they might get their money and the product when it arrives.

 

Hopefully he get it sorted out soon!

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ATA STAMP CENTRE
In South African law fraud is widely defined as the unlawful and intentional misrepresentation which can lead to the actual or potential disadvantage to another individual or group.

Fraud is also most often a crime of OPPORTUNITY which as we know occurs daily on BOB.

Whether it was unlawful i do not know but he was acting against bob rules and if there was intentional misrepresentation only the seller will know and that would be for a court to decide.

Bottom line is sellers that have now done this or broken the rules should have to be verified for future trading on BOB and if they cannot be verified then they should not be allowed to trade again on the site.

I appreciate the fact that you go out to bat for these sellers and try to resolve all issues in the best interests of firstly BOB,THEN SELLER,THEN BUYER.

However i think the buyers are the backbone and they need all the protection available as one bad experience by a buyer will put him off the site for life and he will inform many people of his bad experience.Irresponsible or fraudulent sellers simply take their warning and go along merrily or open different account and resume their illegal ways.

Please note that BOB is a terrific site and i am very happy to be part of this great team to be able to trade responsibly and in a secure financial environment but we have to weed out these irresponsible traders for the future benefit of BOB and all great sellers and buyers alike

NEIL

Have estimated this sellers negative ratings for non delivery at over R100 000.00-This is a huge amount of money and hopefully bob is not sitting back on this one.Also on one rating given by the seller to a buyer when he was slow to pay was the threat to snc and relist??How could he relist when he did not have stock to supply in the first place.

Nothing like a nice interest free loan to give your business an immediate cash injection when you need to purchase stock

NEIL

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Delicious

Hi guys. Any ideas - I want to track something but the SAPO site freezes ... so parceltrack.co.za and the SAPO site are kind of out of the question..

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Vinyl Lady Decals

Hi Delicious

 

The only other option I am aware of is to call them tomorrow.

The tracking is also usually more accurate if you call them.

I've also tried tracking a parcel this weekend and given up.

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bmakes

hi guys

I think bob should really rethink its policies,regarding sales,buyers protection is practically non existant except from certian sellers,more protection should be afforded to buyers,why don't bob release funds via bob eft for all transactions when the buyer have received,and is completely satisfied with his goods,the negative and neutral rating system doesn't refund monies,its only punishment for unscrupulous sellers who doesn't really care especially if they made a lot of money.The case of louis van elzas could have been avoided,if a better monitoring system have been in place,I personally doubt the refunding as louis 's negative and neutral ratings are piling up,bob as the middleman should take more responsibility and should have a system in place that protects both the sellers and buyers,Bid or buy can become a breeding ground for fraudsters who would take advantage of the loopholes in this system .

bmakes

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qball

Unfortunately as with any other trading platform, we as the marketplace do not accept any responsibility for the actions buyers and sellers take, or their decisions to purchase, or any loss that they suffer, unless the seller is a Verified User. Right now, there are many legal, financial and beauracratic issues that make it difficult setting up an escrow system - that is what you are referring to. In fact, an escrow service was offered on bidorbuy some years ago and no one wanted to use it. It also boils down to what you are willing to pay for such a service? We have asked this question in another thread. We would be willing to offer more buyer protection, but someone will have to pay for it, either the buyer or the seller, again, what would you be prepared to pay for such protection?

 

In Louis' case, again, we do not believe this to be a scam or that fraud has happened. The seller was importing phones and due to delays and faulty products, this situation has arisen. However, he is co-operating with us to either supply the goods or refund buyers, and has already done quite a bit to resolve these situations. Please bear in mind, we are under no obligation to resolve these issues for you, nor intervene on your behalf. You entered into these transactions willingly and accepted the risks when you agreed to the terms of use on the site. Buyers are protected, far more than other sites like Junkmail, Gumtree etc. Ebay still has cases of fraud, it is the nature of the internet, no amount of policies, system changes etc. will eradicate the few people that will take advantage of this type of environment. We can assure you the vast majority of transactions on our site are 100% free of incident or fraud.

 

We would ask that you liaise with Bennet, our security officer - communitywatch@bidorbuy.co.za or call him on 0861 88 0861.

 

Thank you

Cuan

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

HI CUAN

You have an unenviable job.I understand all you are saying but in this case the seller was receiving money and advertising items he did not physically have in stock,As he is not a registered drop shipper he was breaking bobs rules-That the seller is trying to sort out and refund buyers is commendable but does he have a choice as the next step would be charges laid against him,My concern is will he be allowed to continue trading on the site as i doubt he will ever solve all the outstanding issues,When will bob say that enough is enough and not allow him to trade,

I think you do have an obligation to protect future buyers if there is evidence of malpractice which there is in this case and i dont think he should be allowed to trade on the site again having broken the rules once and will in all probabilty do so again.

As i said in a previous post interest free loans to finance your purchase would be wonderful if we could all do it and be granted the leeway that you are granting this seller.I do understand that you are giving him the opportunity to resolve the issue but after that??

Merry xmas

neil

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qball

Neil, thank you for your comments, but I think we have been over this several times on this thread about the stock issue, and have already established that he didn't have the stock, and yes, it was a contravention of our terms of use, as you say, we are giving him an opportunity to resolve these issues, but what I am saying still stands and what leeway would that be? He is not selling anything else, we removed his selling ability, he has no products listed, so your comments make no sense - his account is still open so he can resolve all his outstanidng issues, thereafter we will take a decision regarding his future on the site. The problem is everyone is very quick to call someone a fraudster, admittedly the seller made some poor decisions and had issues like Customs, which are not necessarily in his control, it has happened, we can't go back and change that, we have to deal with what is happening right now.

 

Merry Christmas to you too :smile:

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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TFTC

I have noticed that louis van elzas no longer has listed items. does this mean BOB finally disabled him or he has chosen not to list? asked because I bought a new Blackberry from him which has become a paperweight now and I dont know how to proceed with the warranty issue because RIM customer care does not deal direct with end users.

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qball

Please see my response above regarding his account. The account is still open so he can access sales records etc. Please send an email to communitywatch@bidorbuy.co.za for assistance.

 

Thank you.

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