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New Gems On The Market.

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Lukeness
Chathum Diffusion is a chemical process to enhance the colour and clarity of a gem.

 

I assume that the reasoning behind the reports was the terminology.

 

Chathum is the name of a manufacturer of synthetic gemstones much like Gilson.

 

Diffusion is a process where chemicals and heating are used in conjunction to enhance colour by penetrating the surface layer or the entire gemstone with said chemicals. Usually Titanium (surface diffusion) or Beryllium (Bulk/lattice diffusion that can penetrate the entire stone).

 

To add to the confusion, there are even diffused synthetics (as in the case of synthetic diffusion star sapphires or rubies)

 

At some stage, some dealers started using these terms together. Some may have used them to deliberately blur the lines between the products. It seems, however, that the terminology has now become more widespread. Leaving the word Chathum out of the descriptions may curb the reports.

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Cali Craft and Gems

Thank you Lukeness! I was trying to be as honest / open / transparent in the listings as possible thus me stating Chattum diffusion. From now on I'll just leave out the "Chattum" part. Hopefully this will satisfy the "grumpy" individuals out there...

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PrimoGems

Hi all,

 

Let me see if I can help, diffusion is a treatment to enhance the colour of the gemstone if you scratch the sapphire, the true colour will be shown as it is very thin it does nothing to the clarity of the gemstone. Using the words Chatham (Chathum) Diffussion is a little confussing and bogus to tell you the truth, reason for this is Chatham is the company who makes the stone and diffusion is a treatment Chatham Jewelry: Smart. Beautiful. Real. . Mr Chatham makes high quality Sapphires, Rubies and Emeralds etc, Chatham created gems do NOT produce diffused synthetics they don't need to.

 

Chatham in this case (Chathum) believe the miss-spelling is a, Thai person because most sellers on ebay love using Chathum Diffusion on there listing it helps there sellability of their products to people who don't know much.

 

The best I've seen is a emerald being sold on BOB and the treatment is Corundum Diffusion. REALLY!

 

I don't believe any seller on BOB is being dishonest on purpose as this is their income but rather trusting their supplier. We as sellers should help each other not report each other to CW. Just remember I make one mistake on a gem and upset the buyer and the buyer feels he/she has been taken for a ride and loses all faith in BOB and buying gems so we all lose.

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Lukeness

Beryllium diffusion penetrates the entire stone and will not scratch off like titanium.

Chatham corundum can be diffused to create artificial asterism (Star Sapphires).

Corundum diffusion is probably just a mistake. Sapphires are corundum, diffusion is the treatment.

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PrimoGems

Yes, Beryllium treatment penetrates a lot deeper and sometimes even to the center, Diffusion penetrates a shallow layer of the surface. I did'nt even think of the Star Sapphire and Ruby. You say ( Corundum diffusion is probably just a mistake. Sapphires are corundum, diffusion is the treatment. ) it must be because as we know it's a Beryl but I did not know that they use diffusion on them I only know of colourless oil or polymer resin to reduce the appearance and visibility of fractures please advise.

 

I found another listing Emeralds - 4.20Ct.EXCELLENT COLOMBIAN OPIQUE GREEN EMERALD HEART for sale in Vereeniging (ID:32201215)

 

Honestly this is not about the seller, this is about the treatment am I missing something do they use diffusion on Emeralds.

 

Off topic, Lukeness do you know where I can buy this book (Gems, Their Sources, Descriptions and Identification by Webster and Anderson), even second hand.

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MsPlod

The seller is still using tanzanite in the description for blue quartz stones they are selling. Have a look... Now stating Tanzanite/Quartz as the type of gem.

 

Quartz - 42.75ctAWESOME HUGE TANZANITE DEEP VIOLET BLUE QUARTZ for sale in Vereeniging (ID:32284374)

 

Have sent them a comment and will see whether they respond. Unfortunately they do not seem to be on the forum, otherwise I would have asked them to check the Gem stones forum out, as well as threads relating to false advertising, etc.

 

PrimoGems is quite correct, one or more sellers who advertise and/or describe gems incorrectly affect the credibility of almost all the other gem sellers.

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MsPlod

OK, and this is not the only trader using the term "tanzanite quartz" to describe the gems, here is another (who arguably should know better?)

 

Quartz - 14.85 BLAZING VIVID BLUE CUSHION POLIISHED NATURAL TANZANITE QUARTZ GEMSTONE. for sale in Johannesburg (ID:32352064)

 

Received a very quick response to my question in the Q&A so here you are...

Answers to my Questions

42.75ctAWESOME HUGE TANZANITE DEEP VIOLET BLUE QUARTZ zars88 (489 rating3.gif)

 

Question 02 Feb 2011 08:49

Hi there

Tanzanite is a very particular stone (Zoisite) from Tanzania. This is a normal quartz which has been treated to get the blue colour. Am concerned that using the word "tanzanite" in the description will lead inexperienced buyers into thinking that they are buying the high value tanzanite rather than fairly common quartz.

UPDATED: 02 Feb 09:42

Thank you very much for your speedy response. The listing contains the description Tanzanite/Quartz which is IMO incorrect. It is a blue quartz (blue probably from the treatment). There is no such thing as a tanzanite quartz although the term is used (incorrectly) by a number of other traders worldwide. Suggest that you join the BoB Forum and read through at least the gemstones section to see what the other gemstone traders and buyers think about these types of potentially misleading descriptions.

 

Answer 02 Feb 2011 09:22

That is why listing is under quartz, a tanzanite of this size could be worth half a million, would never list at this price, this quartz is worth every sent as listed.

Tanzanite is a violet-blue color. Tanzanite quartz will have a similar coloring, even though it may not achieve the same depth of color. Some tanzanite quartz will be transparent, while others will be more opaque. This difference may help distinguish it from tanzanite, which has a strong tendency toward transparency.

Read more: What Is Tanzanite Quartz? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_6059847_tanzanite-quartz_.html#ixzz1CmdxgIvD "

 

 

The use of this description is intriguing, since it really does trade on the "tanzanite" factor. I mean, one would not use the terms "gravel quartz", or "fishtank quartz" or "muddy quartz" as a selling point to boost sales.

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Cali Craft and Gems

The response from this particular seller is very interesting considering that up to Tuesday morning, all his "Tanzanite Quartz" listings were listed under Tanzanite and described as Tanzanite!!!

 

I'm also suspecting that this is the user that has been reporting me to CW as the words I'd used to inform one of my buyers (for a purchase already made) were used in the CW report on my Sapphire!

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MsPlod
The response from this particular seller is very interesting considering that up to Tuesday morning, all his "Tanzanite Quartz" listings were listed under Tanzanite and described as Tanzanite!!!

Yup, now he has changed at least some of them to "Tanzanite/Quartz" as the Product ID and listed them all under "Quartz" - at least it is a start?

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Lukeness
Yes, Beryllium treatment penetrates a lot deeper and sometimes even to the center, Diffusion penetrates a shallow layer of the surface. I did'nt even think of the Star Sapphire and Ruby. You say ( Corundum diffusion is probably just a mistake. Sapphires are corundum, diffusion is the treatment. ) it must be because as we know it's a Beryl but I did not know that they use diffusion on them I only know of colourless oil or polymer resin to reduce the appearance and visibility of fractures please advise.

 

I found another listing Emeralds - 4.20Ct.EXCELLENT COLOMBIAN OPIQUE GREEN EMERALD HEART for sale in Vereeniging (ID:32201215)

 

Honestly this is not about the seller, this is about the treatment am I missing something do they use diffusion on Emeralds.

 

Off topic, Lukeness do you know where I can buy this book (Gems, Their Sources, Descriptions and Identification by Webster and Anderson), even second hand.

 

I didn't realize you were referring to Beryl. From the picture in that listing, the stone looks dyed. I don't know of any successful diffusion treatments on Emeralds.

 

The book is available both new and second hand on amazon.

 

Yup, now he has changed at least some of them to "Tanzanite/Quartz" as the Product ID and listed them all under "Quartz" - at least it is a start?

 

I find even this misleading. A correct description would be Tanzanite Simulant or Tanzanite coloured Quartz

 

The other problem is that they are listed as heated under treatments. Those stones are very likely coated or synthetic. Or both. Maybe some combination with irradiation too. But the treatments is certainly not just heating.

Edited by Lukeness

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Cali Craft and Gems

To dear grumbling user Dumble:

 

I suggest you stop harassing me and wasting Community Watch's time - you have been reported! This matter has been discussed with BoB management!

 

For the final time, get your facts straight before throwing accusations, etc!

 

Regards,

A highly p'd off CCG!

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Cali Craft and Gems

Surprising how "high" the selling price is when the seller puts a fabricated value on the item:

 

Sapphires - ALL THE RAGE - "LADY DI" - PRINCESS KATE - 5.80ct NATURAL CEYLON (SRI LANKA) SAPPHIRE for sale in Alrode (ID:32288437)

 

This gem is SO obviously in the same "class" as the other blue sapphires that have been on auction lately (ie. diffusion gems), yet this seller placed a value of R23757 on his item as to drive the price sky high!

 

If the image is anything to go buy, this is a diffused gem (as per the argument earlier on in this thread), plus the seller states that it is also IF!!! :amazed:

 

(and I get reported left, right and centre for the same thing, yet my gems are maximum VVS... tsk tsk!)

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MsPlod

What is a 'Sudanese fire opal'?

 

Whatever it is this little one sold for a bomb... Opal - ASTONISHING 2.19 CT 100% NATURAL SUDANESE FIRE OPAL- TOP OF THE RANGE! was sold for R1,601.00 on 2 Feb at 23:01 by Sollyzar in Mossel Bay (ID:32298572)

 

Ja well no fine - nobody forced anyone to bid so much :rolleyes: Glad for the seller actually, he hasn't been too well!

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Cali Craft and Gems

Now that is shocking! It is a simple "common" fire opal from Sudan - usually with a low value! I have several in stock!

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Lukeness

Some of the Sudanese crystal opal is quite sought after if it is Hydrophane opal. This opal is more porous so retains water and when you soak it for a few minutes, it turns more transparent and the play of colour is more pronounced until the stone dries out completely. A cool gemstone party trick.

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Lukeness

Here's another nonsensical listing:

 

Spinel - 18.05ct. NICE GREEN BLUE SPINEL GEM for sale in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:32429085)

 

That's a very weird colour for NATURAL Spinel and once again, 'corundum diffusion'.

Spinel is (at this time) not known to have any effective treatments by heat or diffusion. It would also be a little doff to diffuse Sapphire into Spinel...

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Cali Craft and Gems

I know for a fact that the gem is NOT a Spinel, but I go for the "bargains"... and if I do get it and eventually relist it, I name it for what it is - Quartz! Some sellers tend to use the "fancier" or less common names to draw more bids... (most of us tend to use the same suppliers so I know what the gems truly are!)

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MsPlod
Yup, now he has changed at least some of them to "Tanzanite/Quartz" as the Product ID and listed them all under "Quartz" - at least it is a start?

And now they are properly listed - hats off to the seller for changing their adverts!!

Quartz - 20.10ct. AWESOME TANZANITE BLUE QUARTZ OVAL LOOSE GEM. for sale in Vereeniging (ID:32388341)

Listed under quartz!

Most impressed...

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Cali Craft and Gems

And magically the origin jumps continents from Africa to South America (Brazil)...

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Cali Craft and Gems

Okay - can somebody please answer me...

 

If a gemstone has the treatment of "diffusion" does this mean that the gemstone is NOT natural - ie. synthetic or lab created?

 

I'm being bombarded with insults and threats once again... I'm just waiting for the CW reports to start flowing in again.

 

What's with people nowdays? Is it "National Pick On CCG" week or something?

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Lukeness

If the term is being used accurately, a diffusion treated stone should be natural. There is not really any need for the treatment on synthetic stones as they can be manufactured in a myriad of colours.

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Cali Craft and Gems

Thank you for your reply Lukeness.

 

I've bought in a stack of "diffusion treated" gemstones from my suppliers and they only supply natural stones - ie. nothing lab created or synthetic, so to be on the receiving end of the ongoing threats and insults is not appreciated.

 

Now if only the "accusers" actually knew what they were talking about before dishing out the incorrect information to my buyers!

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Lukeness

I just hope the terminology is being used correctly. Of course, without physically seeing these stones I can't make a judgment call, so please don't quote me in listings as without having a stone in hand I am working blind.

There seem to be more and more cases where the treatments listed are entirely misleading.

I've seen some weird examples in listings lately which are clearly wrong and in many cases very misleading.

These Include some of the following:

Chatham Diffusion (We've already gone through the reasons why - this has been used in the descriptions of stones both natural and synthetic)

Diffusion (Being used for coated stones)

Treatment - Corundum (It seems like the treatment is being used to name what type of synthetic the stone is, without calling it synthetic)

Treatment - Corundum Diffusion (HOGWASH)

A bunch of others.

Also, 'HEATED' seems to get used as a catch phrase for any treatments under the sun. From Gamma Irradiation to lead-glass filling and then of courses genuine heating. This is just misleading.

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Cali Craft and Gems

Very interesting development on the gem seller's section... seller Melbon has been warned for shillbidding and two of their "other" accounts have been blacklisted.

 

I smelled a rat and I was right! Very disappointing behaviour! A "new" seller with all items listed as discreet reaching very high prices drew my attention - plus the insults laid on me from their "other" account via the Q&A!

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lilythepink

Glad to hear that you're vindicated, Cali. Spite never gets anyone anywhere and I think when spite is directed at us personally by another seller then we can expected things like this to happen!

 

Whatever role you played in this - very well done! :awesome:

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