Over-Rated values On Listings

[Celebrity Jewels 10]

Hi All,

I am not usually one to make a fuss or make somebody else's listings look bad but after all we have tried to accomplish regards gemstone listing guidelines what do you think of this Amethyst that is worth R23 745-00. here is the link - http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/8014850/CERTIFIED_32_89_ct_HUGE_TOP_PURPLE_AMETHYST_R23_745_00.html . Boy, and it is certified. Morn e, Morne, Morne where are you? (security) - here is a citrine valued at R35 400 -00. link here - http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/8014890/CERTIFIED_42_35ct_HUGE_FLAWLESS_AAA_MADEIRA_CITRINE_R35_400_00.html

Outlaw these sellers who are misleading the public - I show no value on my listings and neither does Motherearth and other reputable sellers on BoB. We could just as easily put R35 000 - 00 down for most listings but do not do it because at the end of the day, a retail valuation by a jeweller is not worth the piece of paper that it is written on (if even genuine).

Guys, honesty and transparency are what buyers are looking for, not impulse buys because they have had a few too many castle lagers and see their way out of financial trouble by an inflated RRP.

Regards,

Brian (Gems Direct)

[motherearth 10]

Hi Brian, these stones are almost certainly hydrothermal, ie - man made , very misleading considering they can be purchasesd for less than $0.20 a ct. It is very probable that the seller does not know this, but ignorance is not an excuse. To state a value of nearly $7,000 US for a Citrine, even if it were natural is reckless, the mention of GIA and certificates is also very deceiving and is by far the biggest problem on BOB where gemstones are concerned. I am yet to see a genuine certificate in any listing. People should note that print outs from Gemval are farcical and rely 100% on the input from a seller!!

 

Jeff

[Lukeness 10]

I would be VERY interested to see the certificates and see who would certify those gems as natural and at those values.

[Celebrity Jewels 10]

Another one

 

Hi Guys

 

I'm going to buy this one and take a year out of work -

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/8014682/CERTIFIED_9_21_ct_TOP_PIGEON_BLOOD_RED_RUBY_R130_345_00.html

 

Motherearth, I now understand your idea of getting a link to the forum on all listings so that customers can be better informed about exactly what is what. I will be applying this in all further listings. Nothing personal towards this seller but I would just like a reply or input as to where he gets the values stated. If Gemval then worthless and if a not I would propose a kitty to get the Gemologist that certified it at this value a serious refresher course!

The forums have helped me immensly to get my own house in order - Thanks Jeff and Luke, and the future of BoB depends on honesty and transparency when it comes to accurate listings which give the buyer a true impression. I see many sellers do just that.

 

Gentlemen - Forget the year off work! Take a good look at this one - http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7794553/16_61Ct_Million_Rand_Ruby.html -

Cheers

Brian

ps: I still have not stopped laughing!!

[motherearth 10]

sorry

 

False and home made certificates are a real problem , also very misleading

 

Jeff

[qball 12]

Please see the rules for posting on the forum - this is being locked.

 

bidorbuy does agree that listings should be truthful, accurate and honest - it's the sellers responsibility to ensure this - having said that - it's also the buyer's responsibility to ensure they know what they are buying, as is standard practice accross most major auction sites worldwide.

[Lukeness 10]

Granted Cuan, the sellers should know what they are buying. But if the seller is misleading or lying to them you cannot rely on the buyer to know any better. They are not trained as experts on the contents of each and every category of items available on BoB, nor should they be expected to be.

 

If the seller is supplying false information you cannot penalise the buyer.

 

I don;t really think it is fair to compare BoB to any other auctions sites as 1. BoB will not allow it's users in the forum to do so themselves and 2. BoB hasy very little in common with any of them. And that isn't meant as a criticism.

[motherearth 10]

Education

 

It is important that more people get involved in this forum, education and knowledge of gemstones is the prime aim here, but there are many people , as Luke states above, that have no idea about Gems, we are talking about valuable and very expensive items here...and there are many consumers not getting what they pay for, and certainly not what is advertised!

 

Jeff.

[Lukeness 10]

This is from Gemval's FAQ page:

 

 

Do you provide any appraisal certificates?

 

To comply with international gemological practices, official appraisals must be done offline by a certified gemologist through direct manual examination. The estimated value obtained on Gemval.com cannot be used as a reference for any legal or official purposes. Gemval.com provides a reliable interactive tool for valuing gems, but in the final instance, the appraisal is made by you.

[Lukeness 10]

Re: Another one

 

Hi Guys

 

 

 

Gentlemen - Forget the year off work! Take a good look at this one - http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7794553/16_61Ct_Million_Rand_Ruby.html -

Cheers

Brian

ps: I still have not stopped laughing!!

 

The claims made in that listing are nothing more than outright fraud.

I the only thing that seems accurate is the weight. According to the picture not one of the other claims can be real. Not colour, not clarity, not lustre, not treatment and certainly not the price!!! What is that cut????

[Celebrity Jewels 10]

Hi Guys

 

Got a tricky one here! Can anybody help me with the value of the below:

 

Specimen: Garnet Mali

 

Weight: +/- 5.00 ct.

 

Colour: Yellowish Green

 

Clarity: Almost Eye clean

 

Cut: Excellent

 

Shape: Round

 

Would appreciate any feedback before listing.

Thanks,

Brian

[Celebrity Jewels 10]

Correction

 

Sorry guys

 

Exact weight is 3 carats

 

Thanks

Brian

[admin 10]

Here you go...

 

[admin 10]

OR, is it this one..

 

 

Just goes to show how easy it is to put up a valuation on the auction site.

 

Buyers be aware!

[Celebrity Jewels 10]

Value

 

Thanks Admin

 

That is exactly what us sellers are saying about valuations. Unless done by a Gemologist who has the stone in person, it is worthless. Gemval spits out whatever you want it to say and is extremely unreliable and misleading as you have demonstrated in the above 2 messages.

 

Lets just hope that not too many sellers and buyers alike trust in these certs and that more folk would come to the forum here on Bidorbuy to get advice before they purchase. Bidorbuy is certainly proving to be a source for many people in SA who may not even be members. That is an achievement in itself.

 

Regards

 

Brian

[motherearth 10]

?

 

Certificates should be for identification of stone type and treatments only, good labs will also give origin!! I know of none that will actually give a valuation, they just tell you what it is, and what treatments have been used(if any)...Even the mighty GIA do not mention values on their certificates.

 

Who is Hancadri Spies??.....Google search, turns up only links to one particular sellers items!!, surely such a famous SA Gemologist with 20 years experience, would have more entries on the WWW?

 

for info on a genuine laboratory and how it works, check out the link below

 

http://www.gemresearch.ch/

 

Jeff.

[GemsnJewels 10]

USGL

 

I am just wanting to get opinions about USGL Certificates and Identification cards, especially from lukeness. Thanks very much

[motherearth 10]

1

 

See this:

 

 

http://www.zimbio.com/Exposing+Scams/articles/253/Neimans+Jewelry+USGL+reported+FTC+deceptive

 

Jeff.

[GemsnJewels 10]

Thanks, its good to get other people's opinion.

Although this company called "Neimans Jewelry" is not the only one selling jewellery with certification from USGL.

And when you do a google seach it comes up with [edited - admin] , a very professional and convincing website.

Now if they really are frauds, how many others are there like this out there, and who can we trust?

[motherearth 10]

1

 

you should check the replies to the original post, links are shown underneath, as I have stated previously, Certificates should be for authenticity purposes only!, in other words to show that the stone is genuine and what treatments have been used , there are no reputable Gemological Labs that do valuations, at least to my knowledge!

 

Jeff.

[Lukeness 10]

I've heard lots of scary stuff about USGL.

Gemological appraisals can be done. But they are not part of the certificate. They will be done based on the information a certificate provided by a major lab provide and hands-on visual identification.

Appraisals can be very subjective but should fall within certain international guidelines for specific grades and stones.

 

It is usually recommended to offer an appraisal as an after sales service for the customer's expense or for the customer to get their own appraisal in order to avoid any bias. An appraisal before a sale and paid for by the seller has a great dangerous of either being, or being perceived as, biased or in some cases even falsified.

 

If you really must have an indication of value on a listing it would be best to list it as an estimate. A value range (i.e. R500-R640) is also better as it is an indication of value, not a valuation.

 

Sellers need to be especially wary of this as if they state that a stone has a specific value, they are legally bound to provide just that and could be held liable for any significant difference.

 

It should be noted that Gemval also only provides estimates. They themselves make it quite clear that their values do not constitute a proper appraisal. So they should not be offered as such. Sellers making claims based on their figures are liable for the claims should they actually word them in the way that most currently are.

 

FROM GEMVAL:

Do you provide any appraisal certificates?

 

To comply with international gemological practices, official appraisals must be done offline by a certified gemologist through direct manual examination. The estimated value obtained on Gemval.com cannot be used as a reference for any legal or official purposes. Gemval.com provides a reliable interactive tool for valuing gems, but in the final instance, the appraisal is made by you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please note that the price calculated is an approximate value. Factors contributing to a particular gem value can only be accurately assessed during a visual check by a specialist. We recommend you use a professional appraisal service offline for a more accurate valuation.

[motherearth 10]

1

 

decided to try the Gemval thing with the listing below, where the seller claims yo have got a $24,632 appraisal!!!

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/8142669/LOVELY_CRIMSON_RED_7_34ct_OVAL_RUBY_$24632_31_BUY_SAFE.html

 

I typed in the best possible scenario with the details available and got this result

 

Current web market value estimation

 

Specimen: Ruby

Weight: 7.34 ct.

Color: - medium dark slightly purplish Red; strong (Africa, heated)

Clarity: Eye clean 1 ( VVS)

Cut: Excellent

Shape: Oval

 

Value: USD 11567.31

 

however! .. the stone in question is certainly not VVS1 , it is not even SI quality, so i again entered new more honest details. with the following results!!

 

Current web market value estimation

 

Specimen: Ruby

Weight: 7.34 ct.

Color: - medium dark slightly purplish Red; strong (Africa, heated)

Clarity: Included 3 ( I3)

Cut: Good

Shape: Oval

 

Value: USD 826.31

 

on both appraisals I have been very kind on the colour of the stone, and also the cut.....

 

Gemval has no option for fracture filled Ruby, if there was such an option, values would drop by at least 50%

 

No matter what I entered into Gemval, I could not get anywhere near the value quoted in the listing!!

 

So where are these fugures coming from?

 

Jeff.

[motherearth 10]

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/8610816/CERTIFIED_41_28ct_HUGE_MADEIRA_GOLD_EMERALD_CHK_BOARD_CITRINE_R36_326_00.html

 

this one was brought to my attention by Cali Craft

 

even if this was not a hydrothermal(lab grown) stone and was natural, it would be worth nowhere near the $4,500 value that is claimed by the seller, this has been bid up to a very high amount already, on what must be the buyer's belief of what is written in the description, this material is sold by the ton, each week on another famous auction site, while they are not declared as Hydrothermal, there are no ridiculous values attached to them.

Pieces sell everyday in this size for as little as $5, if the seller is very lucky, they may get $15 and would be very happy at the decent profit they made!!

 

cheers Jeff