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Counterfeit 1893 2 1/2 shilling

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EWAAN Galleries

Hi

 

Great Stuff!

 

Many Thanks for the info.....

 

Scary to buy ungraded coins now days unless getting it from a reputable seller or collector....

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Vertigo

its in the 3

 

HI All

 

Easiest way to spot a fake is in the date 1893 , the original 3 has 2 rounded semi circles (same as the number 3 on your computer keyboard) , and the fake 3 has a triangle and a rounded semi ,

 

Warm regards

Imraan

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ZARBOY

Hi Imraan

 

Spot on! But for now....

 

Let's test your knowledge. Why would the 3 differ from the original 2 1/2 Shilling?

 

Can't wait to see some of the responses...

 

Regards,

 

Thomas van der Spuy

ZARBOY

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Mike Klee

HI!

 

1. Easy....because the fake 1893 half crowns were "created" from altering the "7" of 1897 half crowns.....

 

2. Re the original post, just because a flaw or indentation appears in a number of coins, why should that point to a fake/forgery? On that basis, the veldpond slash variety would be regarded as a fake - when we know full well that this is not the case. Only one set of dies was used for the veldpond and, when the one part became damaged - due to a speck of metal, whatever, defacing the surface of the die - the coins that were subsequently produced all had the same indentation/slash in the same place. Fake? Definitely not!

 

Also, there had to be several sets of dies used for the 1883 half crown. Is it not possible that at least one set became worn and manifested indentations in the flan of the coins produced therfrom..... which make these coins "different"?

 

Mike Klee

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ZARBOY

 

Also, there had to be several sets of dies used for the 1883 half crown. Is it not possible that at least one set became worn and manifested indentations in the flan of the coins produced therfrom..... which make these coins "different"?

 

Mike Klee

 

There is definately no 1893 half crowns in existence that has this "variety" 3 on the date.

 

This is a definate chinese counterfeit foorgery:

 

1. Similar marks on lower reverse

2. Typical 1897 obverse strike

3. Identical and pure reverse "motto"

 

When counterfeiters made these fakes, they used a die made from the 1897 half crown. The details of the 97 hc, including all of its marks and other imperfections, are then transferred onto the die or mold. The counterfeits that are subsequently struck will all show the exact same marks.

 

The reason the 97 was presumably used is because of the general overall quality. The counterfeiters loose some detail from the original coin when the die is made. Using a commonly found 1893 hc would result in a very poor condition coin.

 

Going forward, counterfeiters will evolve making it almost impossible to spot these fake coins. I believe this to be the single biggest threat to rare coins in the future. Again shows one to only buy from reputable collectors and dealers.

 

Regards,

 

Thomas van der Spuy

ZARBOY

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Mike Klee

Hi Thomas,

1. Agreed that there are no genuine 1893 half crowns with this "variety" 3 on the date....but there are known forgeries where it is apparent that 1897 half crowns have had the "7" altered to a "three" - thus the "fake 3 has a triangle and a rounded semi" (Vertigo). The 2 coins that are pictured in the NGC article are obviously fakes based on this alone.

2. However, can one say - as per the same article - that " Authenticators often look for characteristics (such as marks) that repeat on multiple coins to assist in identifying counterfeits. It is virtually impossible for two genuine coins to have marks in the exact same locations, so if two coins show identical abrasions there is a very good chance that they are fake. " ?

This statement cannot be correct as we know that veldponde of both the "slash" and non-slash variety are indeed both genuine veldponde - and from the same dies.

3. Having said the above, it is probably not too smart to have pointed out to the counterfeiters why their current product is recognised as being counterfeit. On another forum to which I subscribe, there is a stated forum policy not to point out the flaws in faked product, because counterfeiters use these forums to display their wares in an attempt to receive comment which can be used to further improve the "genuineness" of such product. Fact is, it is only a matter of time before fake coins are made which are indistinguishable from the real thing and, sadly, I think that time has already been reached......

Mike Klee

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Vertigo

Acid test

 

Hi , thomas , mike

 

I'm sending out a bunch of coins , I have a fake 1892 crown ,

 

What do you think will happen at NGC ? ( I think I'm just wasting my money)

 

Btw , I have no view of selling the coin if it does grade , of which i highly doubt as I'm sure the major grading companies know about these fakes.

 

Note : we are very lucky as the Chinese are mostly making and slabbing fake US coins and the south africans not not as badly affected by this "growing industry"

 

 

Warm regards

imraan

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Mike Klee

Hi Imraan,

1. Your fake 1892 crown definitely will not go through NGC: the differences between the real ZAR 1892 crown and Chinese fakes are too well documented and are known by NGC.

2. Re China, the machinery and advanced technology available in China make possible the replication of any coin to a superb standard. Any rare coin can be reproduced - which is a problem for us as South Africa has a huge number of rare, highly-valued numismatic items. Take a look at the offerings of very rare South African slabbed coins from vendors in China on eBay and you can see that the Chinese have recognised South African coins as being highly worthwhile to trade in. What is going to happen when less scrupulous vendors in China push more and more replicas of our rarities - slabbed(fake) and unslabbed - into the arms of unknowledgeable buyers through eBay, etc?

Mike Klee

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Mike Klee

Hi!

 

As per reasons from previous information in this discussion, this is definitely a fake.

Also note: the item is from a seller in China, the seller has not sold anything on eBay before, there have been no bids and the item is in beautiful condition except for the fatal problem of it being a fake.

Mike Klee

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BumbleBee

The one on eBay is mosts certainly a fake, it has the modified 7 and all the marks pointed out by the NGC article in the first post.

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