Zar Veld Pond ID 26132093

[EEND 10]

Hi Senior Bobers Is this coin for real. Please I need advice.

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/26132093/Veld_Pond_1902.html

Edited September 18, 2010 by admin
Inserted link to item

[Guest Guest]

No way

 

Personally I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole.

 

The seller has no ratings and if it was real the price seems extraordinarily cheap.

 

I think BoB check that listing out.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

[Pierre_Henri 117]

If no milling then probably stay away?

 

I am no expert on these issues but shouldn't this coin have a milled edge of between 72 and 79 grooves (on the edge)?

 

The seller describes it as having no milling so how can this be?

 

Or am I confusing the word with reeding?

 

Where are the ZAR experts like Thomas, George, Anthony, Werner etc. ?

 

Pierre

[Mike Klee 15]

Hi Pierre,

 

You have provided so much info on the GQT coins - as has Scott - that it is necessart to contribute on other matters....

 

When you compare this particular veldpond with images of certified specimens previously sold at auctions, it becomes very apparent that the "veldpond" on offer is not an exact match. Unfortunately for the seller, it has been well documented that the dies for the veldpond were hand-made and thus one of a kind. The slash that crept in would have been from deterioration of the die due to a piece of metal at some stage indenting the die itself - thus, the normal veldpond and the "slash" variety. Two types of veldpond...only two types....and with the slash being the differentiating feature.

Any purported veldpond on sale which differs from that of the slash/non-slash varieties which come from the original dies has got to be a fake.

Unfortunately for the seller, his specimen does not match the images in my possession of slabbed, genuine veldponds.......so the "coin" on sale cannot be genuine.....

Mike Klee

[zarmaniac 10]

Pierre, Mike and Scott...

 

I have examined this coin myself, as have Peter Bowles and Michael Kaplan, two dealers with 40 years+ experience each!

The coin is 100% authentic. According to me, it was in a ringmount, and the person who removed the mount, filed down the whole milled edge where the mounting marks were. So coin is a bit smaller in diameter and lighter weight. If my memory serves me right about 7.4grams.

The seller is an elderly gentleman and this is his first time selling on bidorbuy. Your comments(without viewing the coin) can seriously harm his chances of selling the coin.

 

Mike, the seller is actually from PE and bought the coin there at an auction a few years back.

 

Regards

Werner

[Guest Guest]

Hi Werner

 

If I was the seller I would withdraw the listing (if he can) and give it to someone who has a history of trading on BoB - that was my point.

 

I never buy from a person who does not have a trading history - and to start off with such a rare coin is not a smart way to sell it on an online auction like BoB.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

[Mike Klee 15]

Hi Werner,

The seller's case ws not helped much by the first image of the reverse, which was of very poor quality, and the exclusion of the obverse. I see that this has been sorted out and both images are there - although the reverse is still of poor quality.

Looking at the new images, the obverse does indeed match the images of veldponds which I have - unfortunately, I do not own the real thing! - whilst the reverse also seems to be fine. So.....with the new pics I now have to say that this coin does appear to authentic....BUT, the removal of a portion of the milled edge/reeding will not allow it to be slabbed by NGC .....

Mike

[Guest Guest]

I agree Mike

 

Hi Mike, Werner

 

Werner I have to agree with Mike.

 

Even a historic coin, like the Veldpond, that cannot be slabbed because of past mounting will always be second rate and overlooked by serious investors in coins.

 

Having said that, personally I would have been interested in bidding on this coin but the sellers lack of history has, from experience, resulted in me giving it a wide berth (see my first post). Past history in online auctions is a critical element that sellers should never underestimate.

 

PS If the coin does not achieve its reserve I would be taliking to sellers like zarboy (Thomas), m66l (Michael Laidlaw) or Pierre Henry. A small commission could pay you very good returns. PLEASE NOTE: I am not sure if these sellers accept coins on this basis.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

Edited September 22, 2010 by ndoa18

[Pierre_Henri 117]

I think it is the real thing ...

 

I must agree with Mike and obviously take the word of Werner ...

 

The coin looks authentic and I will go then for that.

 

The milling/reeding was probably removed because of mounting and filing and the seller should have stated that very clearly

 

But becuase he is a new seller and all of us have to start somewhere he gets my thumbs up.

 

For comparison sake: About 5 or 6 years ago I sold an ex mounted Veld Pond for R30K that I bought from Dolphin Coins in London (Brian Isley) for R900 in 1997.

 

Dolphin Coins are no more so some lessons to be learnt ...

 

Pierre

[coinoisseur 14]

I am no expert on these issues but shouldn't this coin have a milled edge of between 72 and 79 grooves (on the edge)?

 

The seller describes it as having no milling so how can this be?

 

Or am I confusing the word with reeding?

 

Where are the ZAR experts like Thomas, George, Anthony, Werner etc. ?

 

Pierre

 

Hi Pierre

 

I am replying to this from Venice...... I have personally seen a Veldpond without milling. The coin looked to have been struck from the original die but I could not tell for sure that it was genuine.. I personally would not classify it as genuine until the coin is verified verified first. This coin could well be the same one that I saw. It belonged to a prominent dealer in JHB. I have pictures of the coins, so when I am back in the middle of October I will compare them and let you know.

 

Cheers

Anthony

[Guest Guest]

Hi Anthony

 

The world has really become such a small place!

 

I know this is off topic but, if I may ask, what are you doing in Venice?

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson