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motherearth

Burmese Rubies - do not be fooled!

127 posts in this topic

FACTS - True Burmese Rubies are now so rare that even small 1ct size stones demand $6 - $800 US a ct, 2ct - $1500 - $2000 a ct, 3ct - $2 - $3000 , bigger sizes you need a mortgage for! All this providing you actually have the contacts in Burma to buy them! Ignore the *******t home-made certificates! If the price seems too good to be true! then it is!

 

This is not a marketing ploy, just simple facts, ignore them at your peril!

 

There are quite a few sellers doing the "Certified Burmese" thing! It's outrageous!

 

My main business is high-end jewelry, which I consign to the big auction houses (Christies, Sothebys) in London and Paris. I sit every week amongst the gem brokers in Bangkok trying to buy Burmese Rubies (as well as other stones) it's not easy to find good stones, and they have very high prices. When I am lucky enough to buy one, I can sell it instantly and at a big profit. I would never even attempt to sell one on BoB....impossible!

 

The biggest one I have been offered this year was a little over 3ct, price $1600 a ct (that's trade price) .... unheated,very nice stone, but badly cut...you just can not afford to recut stones when you are paying these prices. I declined, but I would happily pay $2000 a ct for nice cut stones

this size.

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7198048/BRILLIANT_2_7_ct_PEAR_CUT_BURMA_RUBY_GEMSTONE_Appraised_US$8000.html

 

If this is the actual photograph of the stone sold then it's synthetic, must have lost a lot of cash on this sale, sold for $30!

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7603539/CERTIFIED_6_50_CT_TOP_BRIGHT_RED_BURMESE_RUBY_SUPERB.html

 

100% African Ruby - why not show the GIA certificate?

 

Click the link below to see what a real , genuine certificate looks like from GRS (Swiss Lab) in Bangkok which is a worldwide respected business, whose speciality is Burmese stones.

 

http://www.jeffdvs101.com/pics/dvs12299cert.jpg

 

Notice there is no false valuation - respected labs do not offer valuations!

 

certificate can be verified at http://www.gemresearch.ch/

 

Bye for now,

Jeff

 

The cert is for the stone in the ring!

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We are not allowed to sell fake ware.

 

But clearly SOME are!

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Not quite sure what you mean? not very specific my friend

 

Jeff.

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Sollyzar and gems4ever can.

 

The rest cannot.

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Ok got it

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Go through all the other auctions and you will find similar or much worse claims. Some of them are genuine mistakes from being deceived by suppliers, some are not.

 

The claim is not that Sollyzar is selling a fake ruby but rather that its origin (which can dictate huge price differences), is allegedly incorrect. As far as this seller is concerned I know for a fact that he is in the process of finding different avenues for proper testing and certification as means of having the correct information at his disposal for disclosure. The are many of sellers who are not even trying. Or are simply making their own certificates. Whether they are qualified to do so or not.

 

The problem could stem back in the supply chain.

Did the original seller supplier the certificate with location proof?

Is location stipulated on the gemstone identification report (certificate)?

Is the seller acting on "good-faith" based on information received from the supplier?

Does the location stipulate where in Burma (Mogok or Hmong Su)?

When the seller writes "Certified Burmese Ruby" is it in actual fact a certified ruby, that was supplied as Burmese?

 

If the stone in question is synthetic (based on that image I would have to agree 100%) then it is a completely different story.

 

Once again, Gemval appraisals cannot have any real value when the person filling in the appraisal is entering the information is the seller and could jump grades or falsify information. OR not be qualified to actually make the distinctions required. At best gemval is a guideline for those who are able to distinguish those factors. There are also many, many factors that a service like gemval does not provide for, which could change the price from bargain basement to unaffordable.

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I am not saying it's fake either, and it is not a personal attack on the seller, i am just stating the facts, the Ruby in question is blatantly not Burmese,

 

"QUOTE" This gemstone was graded and valuated at R 166 400.00 (US$ 20 800.00) by an independent, qualified gemmologist (GIA / GEC certified) as recognised by the South African jewellery and insurance industry"

 

This makes it seem like the stone was certified in SA , if so where? When you start waving claims around such as GIA etc. surely you would want to display such glowing praise of the said stone.

 

So if a dealer sells me Synthetic Ruby as natural Burmese, is it OK to sell them as such?, of course not!!

 

check this out

 

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=5076820

 

this will sell for over 250,000.00 US $ and this ruby is heated and fracture filled

 

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=5076834

 

over 500,000.00 US $ for this one

 

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=5076858

 

2 million dollars

 

I strongly urge all the sellers to stop selling their Burmese Rubies on BOB,and immediately set them all in nice diamond settings, get the next flight to Geneva in Switzerland, where I am sure Christies auction house will "RIP YOUR ARMS OFF" for your Burmese Rubies, you can then live a life of utmost luxury on the profits you will make.

 

I will of course expect and accept a generous commission for passing this information on to you!! LOL - I THINK NOT!!

 

take care Jeff.

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OTHERS who should also fly off immediately to Geneva!!!

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7667218/2_15CT_RARE_HOT_RED_PINK_100_NATURAL_RUBY_OVAL_R31665_00.html

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7560312/Certified_5_3_ct_OVAL_CUT_BURMA_RED_RUBY_Gemstone_Appraisal_R236_400.html

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7583118/RUBY_NATURAL_BURMA_ROUGH_RUBIES_MOULDED_IN_SHAPE_OF_A_PRIEST_1505cts.html

 

This last one is something special.....WOW .... lol ... imagine how many 10ct plus size stones could have been cut out of this piece, and to think someone instead sacrificed all that money to make a carving!! :shock:

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hey there,

 

im new to this site but have been buying gems for a while. Motherearth I think its a matter of sour grapes wiht you. Dont be jealous please!!

 

I bought a ruby from a seller on this site and am completely satsified. I would not normally be able to afford such a stone in that size. Its brilliant really. I took it to a friend of mine. They retail these stones.

 

The rubies are clarity enhanced which is the term used by the most reputable labs in the world. No harm done, the ruby is still natural.

 

Only thing that bothers me as a buyer is when they declare the ruby from Burma instead of African states where they originate.

 

Lastly, I would never buy from you Motherearth. Your gems are of poor quality and thats the prices you are fetching honestly. I have watched the gem market on this site which as as competitive as Ebay.

 

Thank you to Bidorbuy.co.za for the site. Regards

 

Mimi Letterman

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Hi Mimi, sour grapes is not the issue here and jealousy certainly is not! Full disclosure is what the topic is about. I have changed my listings to fully conform with the BOB guidelines and followed advise from qualified people who run this forum.

 

fracture filled,lead/glass filled , beryllium treated , make Rubies affordable to the masses, they are of course still natural earth mined stones, and can be extremely beautiful, providing the treatments are done correctly, they are permanent - but that's where it ends!!

 

Does your friend retail these stones as Burmese and also not declare the treatments?

 

Burmese Rubies are more expensive than Diamonds - FACT

 

Burmese Rubies command AT LEAST(AT MARKET PRICES-NOT RETAIL) 100x more than African fracture filled - FACT

 

If you sell African fracture filled as Burmese - IT IS FRAUD - FACT

 

Any reputable Gem Lab. would never simply declare "clarity enhanced" , they would describe what was used to enhance the clarity.To use just the term "clarity enhanced" , is a cop out used by unqualified people using their own home made certs!

 

Whether you purchase from me or not is of no concern here, I am not here to promote my sales, though how you know my stones are poor quality is interesting. If you are going to have a dig at me , at least back it up with some facts.

 

take care Jeff.

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I hope we get some more responses from sellers and buyers in this regard...

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more canditaes for the flight to Geneva!!

 

More canditaes for the flight to Geneva!!

 

PLEASE NOTE - only business class seats left - but do not worry, the profits you will make in Switzerland will more than cover the costs!!

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7449705/BURMESE_RUBY_5_669Cts_AAA_HOT_CRIMSON_RED_VS_Cert_Value_R163267_00_BntyH.html

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7403400/BURMESE_RUBY_6_686Cts_AAA_DEEP_PIGEON_BLOOD_RED_SI1_Cert_Value_R207600_00_BntyH.html

 

mmmmmmmmmm!!!!

 

check the feedback on the items below!!

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/6644008/AA_RICH_PIDGEON_BLOOD_RED_BURMESE_RUBY_28_240CTS_VALUE_R385908_00_EARLY_CLOSE_AUCTION.html

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/6603880/AA_RICH_NOBLE_BLOOD_RED_BURMESE_RUBY_8_510CTS_VALUE_R177292_00_8_DAY_AUCTION.html

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/6382825/AAA_TOP_RICH_NOBLE_RED_BURMESE_RUBIES_10_700CTS_VALUE_R218232_00_EARLY_CLOSE_AUCTION.html

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/6482863/AA_BRILLIANT_CRIMSON_RED_BURMESE_RUBY_6_210CTS_VALUE_R119979_00_20_DAY_AUCTION.html

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/5615163/AAA_TOP_BRILLIANT_CRIMSON_RED_BURMESE_RUBY_0_860CTS_VALUE_R14089_00_6_DAY_AUCTION.html

 

dd up the costs involved here!!

 

all the above resulted in negative ratings for the seller!!, for fracture filled African Ruby!! I have contacted the buyer in the hope he can shed some light on this and maybe even provide more evidence

 

regards Jeff.

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Hi Jeff,

 

Please dont get me wrong. I certainly am against stating that these Rubies originate in Burma. That is clear deception.

 

All im saying is that, the price of that these african stated rubies fetch is in line with the market price. Fracture filling / lead glass treatment allows many buyers the opportunity to own these natural gemstones at a fraction of the price.

 

I certainly will not pay R28800 for an African Ruby but the one in your link above is totally unnacceptable. Lukeness obviously is a master at picking out ugly stones and funny enough yours featured many a time :D

 

Bye for now

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MiMi2008, yes they do make them affordable, but the treatments need to be disclosed. Selling them as untreated is misrepresentation. The prices they fetch might be in line with the market BUT the values they promise are often not.

 

That being said, real top stones will still fetch astronomical prices.

 

I must also add that Jeff's new listings are MUCH better than they were before.

 

The best way for buyers to safeguard themselves is to educate themselves as much as possible.

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hi Mimi, I think we are all trying to say the same thing here, I have absolutely no problem with African fracture filled Rubies, they are beautiful and affordable...but they are not Burmese!!

 

Yes, Lukeness has an eye for picking out listings that do not conform with the guidelines, he has the knowledge to do so. I don't think I have ever been accused of selling ugly stones!!, misleading descriptions and market prices... yes...GUILTY!!...

 

As soon as I realized you did not need to use these price guides, they came off my listings.. This info from reading the Forum....at the same time I also realized that people were complaining about my listings, but nothing near the magnitude mentioned above. It is not that i do not have enough knowledge of gemstones , and I would never blame my suppliers! just at the time, having looked at the competition I thought "If you can't beat them, Join them"

 

I now believe my listings go a lot further than the suggested guidelines

 

later Jeff.

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I won't comment! :shock:

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there seem to be fewer Rubies being listed as Burmese this past week, but obviously some people are going to continue regardless... if whoever buys this particular stone wants it certified free of charge by one of the best Gem Labs in Asia, and one of the few actually qualified to certify the origin of a gemstone, I will do this at my expense...PLEASE NOTE - for this stone only!!

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7738245/VS2_TOP_SCARLETT_PINK_BURMESE_RUBY_1_600CTS_R103230_RETAIL.html

PM if interested

 

Jeff.

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That I'd like to see...

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100% fracture filled Rubies from Africa

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7933174/STUNNING_2_90_CT_PIGEON_BLOOD_RED_MOGOK_RUBY_WITH_APPRAISAL_CERTIFICATE.html

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7980544/CERTIFIED_6_04_CT_BRIGHT_RED_BURMESE_RUBY_SUPERIOR.html

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/7900202/BURMESE_RUBY_7_824Cts_AAA_PIGEON_BLOOD_RED_SI1_Cert_Value_R246500_00_BntyH.html

 

as stated previously in this thread, there is nothing wrong with fracture filled Ruby, but it should be disclosed, because the price difference between these and untreated stones is HUGE!

 

Buyers should be aware that there are NO Burmese stones for sale on BOB, you should assume that all are from Africa and are fracture filled!!If a Ruby was untreated or even just heated, it should and would be backed by a genuine Gemological Certificate...not the rubbish Gemval appraisals being touted so recklesley on BOB

 

Jeff.

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thanks

 

thanks Cuan...regards Jeff

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1

 

hi all, it seems that this post has been reasonably successful in cleaning up the Ruby section, or is this just coincidence?, while some sellers are still not declaring fracture filling, at least they are stating heat treatment and correct origins, however there are exceptions

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/8048997/BURMESE_RUBY_6_686Cts_AAA_DEEP_PIGEON_BLOOD_RED_SI1_Cert_Value_R207600_00_BntyH.html

 

fracture filled and African!! - valued at nearly $30,000!!!! - home made valuation

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/8109472/CERTIFIED_3_90ct_SQUARE_PIGEON_BLOOD_RED_RUBY_VS2_R59_280_00.html

 

quality is clearly not VS!! - states valued at $7,800! ... valued by GIA gemologist -- WHO?

 

regards Jeff.

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Wow, the first value is somewhat intimidating...

 

You can actually see the bubbles from the lead-glass used to fill the second one.

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1

 

where these valuations come from is beyond me, I seriously doubt that Gemval is even used!! they must just use the first thing that comes into their heads....I entered the first stones details into Gemval and got this

 

Current web market value estimation

 

Specimen: Ruby

Weight: 6.69 ct.

Color: - medium dark slightly purplish Red; strong (Africa, heated)

Clarity: Slightly included 2 ( SI2)

Cut: Good

Shape: Octagon

 

Value: USD 2826.19

 

you should note that the colour used in the appraisal is by far better than the stone in the photo(simply no option for such a dark colour), and that Gemval offers no option for "fracture filled Ruby", also just taking the sellers word that it is SI quality, no way of telling from the photo.

 

the second stone does not really warrant much explanation,when you can easily see the fracture filling in the display photo!! , commonly known in the trade as F.T.Q. = (Fish Tank Quality)

 

Jeff.

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RE: Gems

 

I have recently started investing in gems from Bid or buy. How can i be sure if i am not been sold fake items?

 

I won an auction on wednesday for a 5.59ct Lovely red-pink Madagascan Ruby. It cost me R101 and the seller says "The GemVal appraisal of this ruby is $1983.04, which converts to R15398.85. This is a web traders value, and is about 60% of it's retail value."

 

Can anyone clarify that this is indeed the case or am i been taken for a joke?

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