What is "Laser Frosted"?

[RISadler 10]

Graded - ** POP 1 ** Finest Known - One of One - Laser Frosted Nelson Mandela 2008 R5 NGC Graded MS67. for sale in Johannesburg (ID:25304857)

 

What is "Laser Frosted"?

[MrAerospace 10]

"Interfered with" perhaps? Would be interesting to know the correct answer to your question! :confused:

[kyle2 10]

As far as I can tell, laser frosting is supposed to 'enhance' the coin by roughening up or taking the shine off od the pronounced parts of the coin with a laser.

It gives the face part of the coin and the raised bits a frosty or matt look.

I have silver coins which have this effect, but they came out of the dye like that.

I wonder if frosting the coin constitutes defacing it, because in a sense you are actually altering the coin from the state it left the mint in.:confused:

[Guest Guest]

WtF

 

Good points Kyle

 

Why would you go to the effort and expense of "laser frosting" a MS67 Mandela ZAR5. And how would you (as a grader) know that this had been done.

 

Reminds me of the WtF and BS grades discussed earlier on this forum.

 

I really think this listing should be referred back to NGC for comment. I wonder if they even know about it considering the amount of copies of rare coins originating from China?

 

Consider this from the listing (NGC graded) - see post at top of page.....

 

MS 65 - 21 graded

MS 66 - 131 graded

MS 67 - 1 graded

 

Can someone check this information from NGC carried on the listing?

 

I bought five NGC graded MS66 Mandela ZAR5 coins a year ago - part of a very large number of NGC graded MS66 Mandelas being offered for sale at that time. I cannot believe that I paid just ZAR105 for each when they are the second highest graded NGC coins. I can scan the five slabbed coins if required.

 

Again it is my own personal opinion that something is not right here.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

[RISadler 10]

Thanks for the two "vague" responses.

 

So why is NGC grading such coins? I thought that they had a policy not to grade altered/polished coins?

[kyle2 10]

Make's one wonder, I think an opinion is needed from the SAM.

:confused:

[Guest Guest]

Can someone check this information from NGC carried on the listing?

see my post above

 

PS wasn't there an outcry on this forum over a South African company selling a MS70 graded Mandela for ZAR100,000 a while ago? Who graded that?

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

[kyle2 10]

Laser frosting, the way it is!

 

I spoke to Sandy at the SAmint today.

This is the way it is, Laser frosting is done to the actual mold, NOT the coin, in the case of the 2008 Mandela, some detail on the shoulders of Nelson are frosted. These are legal coins.

ANY coin frosted after the fact and more extensively that what has been mentioned above, has been illegally altered, and it is reccomended that Bob remove these listings.

These coins were only available as a set of 2 coins, one being the 2000 Mandela and the other the 2008 Mandela from the SAmint.

Breaking up these sets is apparently a contentious issue with the mint and they are deliberating as to how to handle it.

[RISadler 10]

... Laser frosting is done to the actual mold, NOT the coin ... These are legal coins.

 

If these are "special" coins from the mint, shouldn't there be a certificate then?

 

 

ANY coin frosted after the fact and more extensively that what has been mentioned above, has been illegally altered ...

 

How can us dimwits tell the difference? Or must we trust the grading companies?

 

These coins were only available as a set of 2 coins, one being the 2000 Mandela and the other the 2008 Mandela from the SAmint.

 

Certificates, again?

 

Breaking up these sets is apparently a contentious issue with the mint and they are deliberating as to how to handle it.

 

Er, telling us what we may and may not do with our money? Good thing "Tot. Bob" isn't here!

[kyle2 10]

I think the mint are drawing up a public letter with regards all your questions, but if you need any clarification, please contact Sandy at the SAmint, she is very helpful and can explain it all in better detail than I can.

[RISadler 10]

Hey, as far as I'm concerned, these "frosted" R5's are worth five Rand, because that is what it is - a R5 coin.

[kyle2 10]

The set from the SAmint is in a lovely presentation box and is sold for about R300. The poor j*ck*ss who bought the one graded MS67 for R2300, could have saved himself R2000 and gone straight to the mint and bought the thing there, in its true collectable form.

[RISadler 10]

Two R5 coins = R10. This means the nice presentation box, plus printed certicate (?) = R290. Bargain box. What is it? Rosewood, oak or sapine?

[kyle2 10]

Probably whalebone., You're in a ratty mood 2day mate?:rolleyes:

[kyle2 10]

Here's a bargain for you RiSaddler, AND its half price too!LOL!

 

Graded - PRICE CUT BY 50%.MS 68 LASER FROSTED MANDELA R5 ! ONLY ONE EVER GRADED MS-68. WILL LOOK AT OFFERS for sale in Vredenburg (ID:25740008)

[RISadler 10]

You're in a ratty mood 2day mate?

 

I am "desperately" looking for a certain camera lens, which everybody advertises (at the correct price) - but nobody has stock! Found three sellers on BoB advertising it, but each needs to back-order it from Canon SA, who informed me they'll have the lens in about three to six months as their current "on its way" shipment is already sold out. Very frustrating.

[RISadler 10]

Here's a bargain for you RiSaddler, AND its half price too!LOL!

 

Graded - PRICE CUT BY 50%.MS 68 LASER FROSTED MANDELA R5 ! ONLY ONE EVER GRADED MS-68. WILL LOOK AT OFFERS for sale in Vredenburg (ID:25740008)

 

Then the seller in my "original post" lied! LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE!

 

And where was CW?

[4kids 10]

Here is a picture of a laser frosted R 5-00. Now go out there buy yourself a loupe and spot the differences on this piece and a normal circulation piece.

 

If you still can't work it out ask and I will elaborate.

 

[RISadler 10]

... spot the differences on this piece and a normal circulation piece.

 

My question was how to tell the difference between a coin minted with a "laser frosted" die and a coin that was "laser frosted" itself.

 

If you still can't work it out, ask and I will elaborate.

[EishGK 10]

Hi

 

The laser frosted coin is quite noticable from the circulation coin. The head and bust is very matt and very distinguishable from the normal circulation strikes. I have two of the sets in which these coins came in together with the 2000 smiling Mandela Proof Like coin and I believe they will have definate collectors value in the future because of the distinguishable features.

 

BTW - What lens are you looking for RISadler?

 

Cheers

Hassim

[RISadler 10]

BTW - What lens are you looking for RISadler?

 

Canon EF 35mm f/2

[4kids 10]

My question was how to tell the difference between a coin minted with a "laser frosted" die and a coin that was "laser frosted" itself.

 

If you still can't work it out, ask and I will elaborate.

 

The only reason I did not want to elaborate is that I decided not not post anything when it comes to the Mandela R 5.00 Birthday coin. In any case,

 

Look at the picture I've posted and you will find that the flowers and detail on the shirt is clear crisp and full, This a a coin from the special set as laser frosted. Where the original R 5.00 90th Birthday coin dies were enhanced to give a more frosted and detailed appearance. If you do a comparison with a reasonable loupe you will see this.

 

I am not aware of anyone that can "Laser Frost" a coin after it has been struck, so making a comment on your question "how to tell the difference between a coin minted with a "laser frosted" die and a coin that was "laser frosted" itself" can not be answered as no such coin exist.

 

The one in your fist posting is therefore an original piece from the sets the mint issued.

[RISadler 10]

The only reason I did not want to elaborate is that I decided not not post anything when it comes to the Mandela R 5.00 Birthday coin.

 

Very wise, indeed.

 

I am not aware of anyone that can "Laser Frost" a coin after it has been struck, so making a comment on your question "how to tell the difference between a coin minted with a "laser frosted" die and a coin that was "laser frosted" itself" can not be answered as no such coin exist.

 

Anything is possible, so maybe... I've seen the guy at the local sign shop do some pretty nifty "engraving" with his laser.

 

The one in your fist posting is therefore an original piece from the sets the mint issued.

 

Never assume... possibly it is, maybe it isn't.

[Guest Guest]

The dilemma

 

Here is my personal view

 

While detail is obviously an issue when it comes to valuing a coin "laser frosting" whatever that might mean leaves me cold.

 

The core behind our hobby is the intrinsic history behind coins, not a slabbed coin. It is this core that creates the investment side that investors try to benefit from.

 

When I hear terms like "laser frosting" that I have never heard of before on slabs I head for the hills. To me it is just wrong and does not smell right - along with recent terms on slabs like "rust", "glue" etc....

 

I might be wrong or I might be right but an old VF ZAR piece that could well have been handled by Oom Paul personally and would MOST CERTAINLY have been handled by other prominent personalities from that time holds more value to me than this "laser frosted" piece that obviously has no REAL life.. apart from being boxed.

 

Do you recall Dr Frank Mitchell's famous comment on this subject?

 

"My final downfall came then an old family friend showed me his collection. I listened spellbound as he introduced me to his coin portrait gallery. He allowed me to hold a Macedonian tetradrachm of Alexander the Great while he told me of his incredible exploits. My hand trembled as I studied the fine portrait of Alexander in his lion-head headdress. Two and a quarter thousand years ago he died – though only 33, the conqueror of most of the known world. Suddenly, as I studied the coin, the truth dawned – I was holding History in my hand!"

 

When this foundation to our hobby is lost a slabbed MS70 Laser Frosted Proof one of a kind whatever you want to call the piece won't be worth diddly-squat because there will be no fundamental core to numismatics.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

[kyle2 10]

Well said Scott!