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Little Miss Muffet

2008 R5 without Mandela head.

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Little Miss Muffet    20
Little Miss Muffet

I thought all the 2008 R5 coins had the MAndela head on them. Seems we had other R5 as I got one in change today.

I suppose being his birthday in July these were extra R5's made mid year or is the combined total 4-5million??

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Vertigo    10
Vertigo

Hi . The Birthday coins were 5 million struck as per reserve bank (special issue) , the other R5 coins that you see are business strikes for circulation , just like any other year, so its the normal R5's for that year plus 5 million birthday coins , hope this helps

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ZARBOY    10
ZARBOY

Hi

 

Does anybody know how many 2008 normal business strike coins was issued?

 

Maybe even more rare than the Mandela Birthday Coin;)

 

Regards,

 

Thomas van der Spuy

ZARBOY

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Pierre_Henri    14
Pierre_Henri
Hi . The Birthday coins were 5 million struck as per reserve bank (special issue) , the other R5 coins that you see are business strikes for circulation , just like any other year, so its the normal R5's for that year plus 5 million birthday coins , hope this helps

 

A million this and a million that - check your change boys...

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Little Miss Muffet    20
Little Miss Muffet

Maybe we can start a new craze. Rare!! Rare!! 2008 R5 coin error strike without Mandela head.:P

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Dulal    10
Dulal
Hi

 

Does anybody know how many 2008 normal business strike coins was issued?

 

Maybe even more rare than the Mandela Birthday Coin;)

 

Regards,

 

Thomas van der Spuy

ZARBOY

 

Hi Thomas

That`s most likely, that normal business strikes are scarce than Mandela 2008 R5. It happened in 2000 where normal R5 (combined both old and new COA) were minted much less than Mandela R5.

regards

Dulal

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wayjen    10
wayjen

just a thought, would a forged R5 coin be scarce or not, just wondering about it because there were quite a few once upon a time.

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Guest Guest   
Guest Guest

Forged coins

 

Hi Wayjen

 

I have, from my days as a teller at Barclays Bank in Natal, several of the old 50 cent (1965-75) South African coins cast in lead. They are obviously forged but in those days 50 cents was a lot of money. Forged coins are scarce but have NO numismatic value although I am tempted to send one for grading to see what terminology might come with its encapsulation! Their only value is novelty.

 

Don't worry BoB I would never put it on auction (encapsulated or not)!

 

I am not sure of the legal ramifications of being caught with a forged coin but suggest you steer well clear of them. Living in Australia I think I am safe from the long arm of the South African law! (Do not have any Australian forged coins).

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

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wayjen    10
wayjen

Hi Scott

 

Can you imagine the coin coming back with a grading that makes it sought after, that would be a story to tell.

 

Cheers

 

Wayne

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Little Miss Muffet    20
Little Miss Muffet
Hi Wayjen

 

I have, from my days as a teller at Barclays Bank in Natal, several of the old 50 cent (1965-75) South African coins cast in lead. They are obviously forged but in those days 50 cents was a lot of money. Forged coins are scarce but have NO numismatic value although I am tempted to send one for grading to see what terminology might come with its encapsulation! Their only value is novelty.

 

Don't worry BoB I would never put it on auction (encapsulated or not)!

 

I am not sure of the legal ramifications of being caught with a forged coin but suggest you steer well clear of them. Living in Australia I think I am safe from the long arm of the South African law! (Do not have any Australian forged coins).

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

 

Steer clear of what South African Law?? I know of a few people who could not live in Australia because everything was done to:o book.

One friend said she found it too boring. There was nothing happening.

Funny thing to say but she added"At least in South Africa there is always something happening even if it is a gun shot"

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Guest Guest   
Guest Guest

Boring Australia

 

Geewhizz you misunderstand my subtlety!

 

What I meant was that only South African authorities would have an issue over someone holding a South African forged coin (ie they would not worry about an Australian forged coin). If you do you have a South African forged coin in South Africa you should probably hand it in. In Australia the same applies to Australian forged coins.. ;-)

 

I must agree Australia is wrapped in red tape and the speed cameras here are the biggest revenue earners for a greedy state government! We were just talking last night about the hundreds of invasive government CCTV cameras that line city streets now!

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

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kyle2    10
kyle2

Hey Scott do you remember the fake R5's that were doing the rounds a while back, that eventually necessitated the need for the bi-metal coins. Some of those were pretty good as far as quality goes, I eventually ended up with some, but rapidly got rid of them again. It would be interesting to see what kind of grade one would get for such a thing. They might even be collectable now. LOL!:P

Graded R5 coin FC64(Fake Coin) for sale Very Rare, A must have for your collection! :)

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Patricia_Gert    10
Patricia_Gert

NGC and fakes

 

Good day all,

 

If NGC suspect a coin is not original, i.e. a fake they will not put it into a slab. If a coin is in a NGC slab that means that in NGC's opinion the coin is original.

 

If NGC deem a coin not to be original the coin will be returned, unslabbed in a "body bag" (i.e. a coin flip) with a note stating either "NOT GENUINE" or "QUESTIONABLE AUTHENTICITY".

 

Kind Regards

Gert

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Dulal    10
Dulal
I'm pretty sure NGC or one of the overseas graders would not slab such a coin, but our local crowd has just recently come out with the amazing grades of "glue", Rust and "pvc", so who knows what they'll grade next!:P

 

Graded - @@@ SACGS GRADING "RUST" - 2008 MANDELA B/DAY R5 COIN @@@ was sold for R31.00 on 18 Aug at 20:31 by cacberg in Burgersfort (ID:25018780)

 

 

What is the intention for sending this coin for grading in the first place ?

 

Dulal

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kyle2    10
kyle2

No Idea Dulal, perhaps you could pose this question to the seller again and let us know what he says.;)

 

The real question is, why would the grading company even bother to grade it and not just reject this type of coin? Surely profit is outwayed by reputation?:confused:

 

If I remember correctly, someone already asked it and the seller stated it was in the bank bag of coins he sent in for grading, anyhow, the seller made a loss, grading is expensive, +- R100 plus shipping, so lesson learnt I suppose.:cool:

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Kit W    10
Kit W
What is the intention for sending this coin for grading in the first place ?

 

Dulal

I hear where Dulat is coming from - WHY? By using the term "Rust", what could be the possible reasons/causes of rust in a coin collection?

I am enjoying this thread - Thank you :)

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kyle2    10
kyle2

I suppose if you are a 'Grade Collector', you know who you are:p, then this type of coin would find a place in your 'Grade Collection', serious coin collectors would give this coin a miss, it is obvious from the realised sale that it has little if any intrinsic value.

As to the cause of rust, anything could have caused it, exposure to the elements, spilt his can of c*ke on it, intentional damage, who knows, its rediculous really.:(

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4kids    10
4kids

This posts relates to "ALL COINS GRADED BY THE LOCAL BOYS" and not only Mandela Parking Tokens and perhaps I will be making a lot of enemies by posting this but at least some readers will be a bit wiser.

 

From the posts recently it is very obvious that posters do not make any effort in educating themselves before doing so. Time is spent in being petty, childish, outright mischievous and pedantic attacking persons and companies, once again without facts to their disposal.

 

Before I go on in explaining let me be very clear about something: I am not involved in any which way with the "local Grading Boys" but bought some graded pieces of the SA Union Series from sellers graded by this company and was pleasantly surprised with their accuracy and grading. The standard in as far as I am concerned is very much on par with the "international boys" athough the final presentation or final product needs loads of attention. Perhaps have a look at the following link and see how these "international boys" started out not so long ago.

SampleSlabs.com- NGC

 

and

 

SampleSlabs.com- PCGS

 

 

In as far as grading is concerned, both NGC as well as PCGS will grade with what is called details grade any coin submitted to them which is a genuine coin with a variety of problems

 

NGC will grade a details grade - Rust will grade as "environmental damage" or "corrosion".

 

A coin with any foreign material such as glue and eligible for grading will be returned with a note that stipulates than the coin is a candidate for NCS - Numismatic Conservation Service and it would be up to the owner to decide to resubmit and pay the fees, have it conserved or cleaned and grade or not, You will pay again for this service and the grading.

 

PCGS does the same, although they do not offer a conservation service, not yet. Until recently they only authenticated coins without a details grade but news is that they will be grading with details grade as well. The serial number actually already shows the grade as well as the problem on the coin but it took me a long time to get all this information together which I use to my advantage and not prepared to share on an open forum.

 

Then the question of the fee charged by the local boys. Both the international companies will charge for the coin, being slabbed with a details grade or returned in a body bag, you still pay for the grading, so why should the local boys not be entitled to do so as well.

 

Here also the link to NGC's "understanding details grade" which also include information for coins that they will not grade.

 

Grading Coins with Surface Problems, Coin Details Grading | NGCcoin.com

 

Enjoy the read.

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kyle2    10
kyle2

Parking tokens

 

 

You've summend it up very well here.:P Parking tokens, I like it.:D

 

But as you have cleary pointed out some terminolgy by a popular grading house noted here and more interestingly though:

 

 

and

 

<Glue Residue is self-explanatory, and may be treatable with proper conservation. NGC’s graders may narrow this down to read OBV GLUE or REV GLUE. Such coins should be submitted to NCS for removal of this material.

 

and as hard as I looked, the closest thing to describing rust I could find was

 

<Corrosion is a problem for most metals, though gold and platinum are nearly immune to its effects. A natural chemical reaction, it causes the surfaces of a coin to form new molecular compounds. Light corrosion results in the often pleasing condition of toning. When corrosion is severe or unattractive, it results in coins certifiable only under Details Grading. NGC’s graders may narrow down the problem area by using the terms OBV CORROSION, REV CORROSION and EDGE CORROSION.>

 

It does seem from some of the above statements made by the grading company mentioned above that some of the abovementioned conditions 'Preclude encapsulation'

Other grading companies seem to have a different set of standards though, not that there is anything wrong with that I suppose.:rolleyes:

 

I read a comparison between grading companies recently and the guys at the top of the list shouted praises, while the guys at the bottom complained bitterly.

The end results of the comparison showed significant differences between how these companies graded coins.

Who do you chose to grade the coin?

Whom ever you want to.

There will always be debate about who does it better, there's nothing wrong with that.:)

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BumbleBee    10
BumbleBee

'scuse me.....just popping in here to make something clear. There was a bit of talk on another thread regarding toned coins, someone mentioned something later on about toned Mandela coins surfacing. This tickled my interest a little and I thought I would beat the other okes to the punch and quickly did an experiment on one of the parking tokens I had lying around. The point I was trying to make is that it is extremely simple and quick to do and to let people know that there is absolutely nothing special about it. I never intended to sell it or have it graded by anyone for any reason whatsoever.

 

I do realise that the "local boys" are relatively new in the grand scheme of things and are trying to build up their reputation. I personally have never seen one of their slabs first hand but have noted many true collector's comments about the accuracy of their grading. This started to convince me of their ever growing status amongst the Numismatic community. However, after seeing hoards of Mandela R5 flying through here with what can only be described as comical grades I have started to question their seriousness and commitment to the hobby.

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lilythepink    10
lilythepink

I just love the title of this thread - has Mandela lost his head? :o;)

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4kids    10
4kids

 

and as hard as I looked, the closest thing to describing rust I could find was

 

<Corrosion>

 

SEE...

 

Corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

And the in regard to details grade, yes they are put into slabs with details grade and I quote

 

"CORROSION is a problem for most metals, though gold and platinum are nearly immune to its effects. A natural chemical reaction, it causes the surfaces of a coin to form new molecular compounds. When corrosion is severe or unattractive, it results in coins certifiable only under Details Grading. NGC’s graders may narrow down the problem area by using the terms OBV CORROSION, REV CORROSION and EDGE CORROSION."

 

The last part is what would end up on the slab "OBV CORROSION, REV CORROSION and EDGE CORROSION." etc.

 

Whether or not a company decides to grade or not to grade a coin should not be an issue nor the fact that they render a service for which they are paid for irrespective of the grade they assign to a coin.

 

The mere fact that both NGC and PCGS now grade with details grade is a result of collectors wanting their coins authenticated, detailed etc. and the call from such collectors was so high that they made this decision.

 

The following link is the shortlist on what NGC will not grade.

 

Counterfeit Coins, Not Genuine Coins, Altered Dates and Added Mintmarks ? Coins Not Graded by NGC

 

Thus all coins except for what and how it is listed here would be eligible for a details grade.

 

However if the graders decide that a coin can be salvaged and thereafter grade, they will rather not slab the coin but leave it to the owner to make the decision and return with such a note.

 

See this article on Salvaged and regraded coins from the PCGS website:

 

Fire Damaged Coins

 

 

Then coins that are eligible for conservation listed here.

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/details/coins-requiring-conservation.aspx

 

Note that this is a general list and I myself had some coins with corrosion as well as environmental damage conserved and graded. The severity of the problem is obviously the main factor in them making a decision if they will do the conservation or not.

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4kids    10
4kids
However, after seeing hoards of Mandela R5 flying through here with what can only be described as comical grades I have started to question their seriousness and commitment to the hobby.

 

 

Most the international guys started with simple coins, cents, dimes etc so the Parking Tokens is a perfect start for the local guys, don't you agree? I think that over time we will see less and less of the Parking Tokens graded from the local guys and more and more of the true collectable coins out there on offer here on BoB. If you look at their early days, even the current standard for the local guys is much better than what they offered.

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BumbleBee    10
BumbleBee

Jan, I suppose you are right. We have got to keep reminding ourselves that they are also just a business at the end of the day and can't really be blamed for this craze. I bumped into a friend in Checkers yesterday, we got to talking about coins and he also asked me what the story is with these Mandela coins. I am still shocked everytime someone asks me about these things. This craze is everywhere, we can't fight it. Its like farting against thunder. Sometimes you just need to stand back and watch a fire burn out.

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