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Guest MacMuffin

How should the improved rating work?

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sungems

Just ask a couple of questions in the form of a tick box except where more specific info should be provided. I also think one rating per order should be allowed (this I am not suggesting lightly as I do receive up to 40 sales, closed auctions in one order myself) This will eliminate those users how want to pile up positive ratings fast by buying small items in a bundle and sellers allowing it to get more ratings themselves

 

 

For sellers I suggest the question should be.

 

· Did you receive any feedback on necessary questions asked (if no questions were asked this will automatically be a eliminated question)

· Did the seller have any unrealistic expectations to the item he/she received, therefore expect more than that were advertised (if yes provide detail)

· Did you receive payment for this deal?

If NO this answer can only be accepted after the SNC is finalised and no further questions will be asked

If YES

Is it paid in your time frame provided?

If YES no further questions will be asked

If NO the following should be asked

How many days late (I think up to a 10 days late should still be considered at least a neutral and 1 to 5 days still a positive

If the answer is more than 10 days the following questions should be asked

Did the buyer asked for payment extension?

If NO, No further questions should be asked and the above answers should reflect the buyers rating on this question

If YES Did you grand extension?

If NO, No further questions should be asked and the buyer should as least receive a neutral on the payment part of the questions asked

If YES How many days after the extension period expired did you receive payment? (If less than 2-3 days a positive would still be applicable)

 

 

 

For buyers the questions can be

· Did you receive any communication from the seller or did you receive feedback from the seller on any questions or concerns you did have? If No provide detail

· Is the item received from the seller, as described? If NO: Did you contact the seller to resolve the issue? (If NO the seller will not receive negative feedback on this saleas the buyer did not try to resolve it), if YES: Are it eventually resolved? If NO provided detail info

· Did the seller post the item in the time frame provided? If NO the following question should be asked to make him aware that he/she should go the auction to see what the shipping terms was: What were the max time the seller informed you it will be posted in and how many days since payment were made and the item POSTED (as mentioned a couple of times each seller do post on his/her terms and if not acceptable to the buyer they should not bid/buy form this seller. Cali Craft also mentioned they were closed for a while. I myself buy our new stock overseas, and when I am away I do not trust any of my employees to post BOB’s items because of the sensitivity issues of the buyers when not receiving what they bought/won. I also inform the buyer about 2-3 weeks in advance on the payment section that we will be closed for posting of items for this period I am away. If something like that is on the display in the auction detail this should taken in consideration when such a question is asked.

 

I would still like to have a separate section like the postage cost and payment section available where the seller do have a separate space to inform the buyer when they can expect delivery irrespective if the rating system will change or not.

· Did you receive your tracking number?

 

Or any other question that is appropriate and applicable

 

The amount of positive answers irrespective if the answer is yes or no determine the end rating

 

The problem with such a system is it will take much more time to do a rating and more users will be incline not to leave a rating BUT Currently not a lot of users have faith in the current rating system as no-one want to leave a negative as the is just returned to you in due kind

627685_100719170358_rating.jpg

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mellowred

I like the idea of a % system. This would give a fairer indication. We'd have 100 rating levels instead of just three.

 

And to keep things simple would only really need the following

 

1. Communication

2. General attitude of user

3. Time factor (paying/delivering)

4. Condition of items compared to advert (for buyers only)

 

Communication and attitude should carry more weight - most users are ok so long as they know what is going on and the other party is pleasant.

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brands online

some good ideas, particularly about buyer's requiring to read all ads/costs before bidding and that rating isn't allowed along those lines. Too many negatives from buyers who complain about what was displayed beforehand.:mad:

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Vinyl Lady Decals
I like the idea of a % system. This would give a fairer indication. We'd have 100 rating levels instead of just three.

 

And to keep things simple would only really need the following

 

1. Communication

2. General attitude of user

3. Time factor (paying/delivering)

4. Condition of items compared to advert (for buyers only)

 

Communication and attitude should carry more weight - most users are ok so long as they know what is going on and the other party is pleasant.

 

I like this idea.

A simple system that most will be inclined to complete with little emotion involved.

I agree about the communication and attitude. I've had several buyers that have started off pleasantly and ruined the transaction just after postage by expecting their parcels within unrealistic time frames, such as within two days after postage. These buyers have in some cases become abusive and sworn at me or called me ugly names which I don't consider appropriate for BoB. These buyers all received positive ratings until the nonsense started after payment. Using this as a portion of the rating will definitely sort of problem.

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luckybird

Hi all, I am worried as an international seller, Even with our system of not using the international postage and rather using freight companies we will always take longer to have goods delivered and will always be more expensive on shipping cost. even though frankly we are cheaper on shipping than many sellers currently on bid or buy.

 

I worry that Shipping time will affect us, our average is 7 days now our quickest has been 2 days longest was 14 days, from China. But there are many sellers who drop ship for instance who use standard unsafe postage which takes a very long time. they maybe good sellers but are reflected negatively by publishing delivery times. This concern applies to many local sellers as well as international sellers.

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Little Miss Muffet

Just leave the ratings as they are. The new sales page reveals it all.

It is keeping me in check because Bob now have a record of all the buyer and sellers movements.

This rating came in today.

"The fastest any item I purchased on this site ,arrived at my home ....":p and after over 3000 ratings

never heard this one before

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Little Miss Muffet
Rather keep what you do have if you cannot enforce a third party to judge a new system. This will be time consuming.

 

And users sometimes do not rate out of fear for a revenge rating but some never rate any sellers sales making this remark not true at all times

 

Read SunGems1 remarks they do have a couple of very good remarks and points

 

I was just reading this again. I would not like to think that a user has not rated me because he/she is unhappy.

I would like all my buyers to let me know through an email or phone call if they are unhappy with something so that I can fix it.

It probably means the user will not buy from me again and I wont be aware of the reason.

Hope the rating system stays as it is.

The new sales page is a "Winner".

It is a life saver to be able to write notes to the buyer through Bob and notes to myself help my deteriorating memory remember instructions

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Wizard Sales

I agree with many of Geewhizz's statements regarding buyers who just do not rate at all. If we as sellers do not receive a rating from buyers, we do not know if the buyer has received and/or is happy with the item and it is definitely left "in the air".

 

I think it is a case that buyers just forget or are too lazy to visit the rating page to rate sellers.

 

I had a case recently selling a digitally delivered item (delivered via email to the buyer as soon as payment cleared) and then almost a month after the sale, I received a negative rating from the buyer stating that he did not receive it. No prior contact from the buyer after sending the item, so I naturally assumed that he had received it and was happy with the purchase. Then to my shock I receive a negative rating claiming non-receipt.

 

I immediately contacted the buyer and forwarded (including the original header to show the date first sent) the email to him containing his purchase, and requested that he please change his rating, which he did do. I also reminded him that he must always communicate with a seller if there is any issue, as we as sellers cannot rectify a buyers concerns if we are not made aware of them.

 

I think the following should be implemented:

 

1. When a buyer/seller logs in say once every 30 days he is presented with a screen listing the unrated transactions, and stating something like "Please remember to rate your unrated purchases". They must then either cancel "which will return them to the homepage (or their control panel)" or issue the ratings. I do believe that if they are presented with that page, most ratings will be done as my opinion is that most buyers just forget to leave ratings. This way the buyer is not forced to leave a rating (say if he has not yet received the product), but has the rating screen placed right in his face on log in, which means he will not just forget to leave a rating.

 

2. If buyer or seller selects the "neutral" or "negative" rating box, a message should pop up with "Yes" and "Cancel" blocks saying something like "Are you sure you want to rate this transaction neutral/negative? Have you tried to communicate with the buyer/seller to resolve your concern? Most concerns can be resolved in a positive way through communication and we only recommend a negative rating if you cannot resolve your concern by communicating with the buyer/seller". Something like that would cut down on the amount of buyers/sellers who use negative ratings as a communication tool without bothering to email the seller first to make him/her aware that there is a problem. It will not eliminate it, but i do believe that a lot of buyers will read that and think to themselves "well let me email the seller and let him know I have a concern first, and maybe it can be resolved positively".

 

 

What do the other members and BoB staff think of that idea?

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lilythepink

I rather like Wizard's suggestions, particularly point 1. above. If the bank can continually remind me that I don't have THEIR software uploaded (I do already have an extensive, paid for checking program which is updated every morning at about 2 a.m.) then I'm sure Uncle Bob could "magic" up a page for buyers and sellers to see until they do ratings? Mac, what are your feelings about this? Too difficult? :confused:

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ClickandShip

I Love this Idea!!!

 

PLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZ DO THIS UNCLE BoB!!

 

I beleive a buyer that is unhappy will ALWAYS rate accordingly...but a happy buyer feels content enough not to leave a rating :(

 

Thi can be detremental to overall rating percentages..:(

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Vinyl Lady Decals

Wizard Sales has some very good suggestions.

 

The nag screen would do the trick and the point two is also a great idea.

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MsPlod

Very good idea

 

Excellent suggestions Wizard sales!!

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Guest MacMuffin

@ Wizard Sales: Certainly some good ideas. The showing of the reminder is certainly something we have in mind. The forced "click-through" on login will irritate many users though. I compare the "need of rating" to servicing your car. Some people will do it diligently and others will only do it if something is wrong. Most people will however never phone up a workshop (well, most of those "stealers" are doing a shoddy job, but there are some good ones out there) and congratulate them on a job well done.

 

We have not thought through it yet (purely because we focus on other priorities at the moment), but we do recognise that a more detailed rating (over and above the +/-/neutral) will benefit everyone. Especially if a seller can rate a buyer on payment promptness or a buyer can rate a seller on shipping/shipping cost.

 

Another thought was to also introduce a rating/count on transaction-value bands. This would also work against fraud (i.e. a fraudulent seller, selling low-value items and all of a sudden going into high-value transactions).

 

Sofar the feedback on this thread has been very valuable and we certainly go through your comments to get some ideas.

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Wizard Sales
@ Wizard Sales: Certainly some good ideas. The showing of the reminder is certainly something we have in mind. The forced "click-through" on login will irritate many users though. I compare the "need of rating" to servicing your car. Some people will do it diligently and others will only do it if something is wrong. Most people will however never phone up a workshop (well, most of those "stealers" are doing a shoddy job, but there are some good ones out there) and congratulate them on a job well done.

 

We have not thought through it yet (purely because we focus on other priorities at the moment), but we do recognise that a more detailed rating (over and above the +/-/neutral) will benefit everyone. Especially if a seller can rate a buyer on payment promptness or a buyer can rate a seller on shipping/shipping cost.

 

Another thought was to also introduce a rating/count on transaction-value bands. This would also work against fraud (i.e. a fraudulent seller, selling low-value items and all of a sudden going into high-value transactions).

 

Sofar the feedback on this thread has been very valuable and we certainly go through your comments to get some ideas.

 

Hi Mac.

 

That is why I said, have the "nag screen" show up say once every 30 days, or preferably maybe once a week. I do not think that having it show once a week would be that irritating to people :)

 

I know that email reminders are sent to rate, but that doesnt really help as the buyers read it, and think "I will rate when I login again" and then forget. LOL.

 

But having the "nag screen" put infront of their face once a week on login, will not really be annoying and will be a much better reminder to rate the unrated transactions.

 

And my second point I think is absolutely essential. I have found that the majority of the buyers who rate negative before communicating are relatively new, and perhaps do not understand how the rating system should work, and therefore use the ratings to tell a seller there is a problem instead of emailing the seller so that it can be resolved positively. Having a message pop up similar to the one I mentioned when selecting the "neutral or negative" button will remind them that they should communicate with the seller to resolve a problem before leaving a negative or neutral rating. It will also cut down on the number of negative ratings which BOB are contacted about to have removed.

 

Really hope my suggestions will be implemented, as it will definitely be beneficial to the site as a whole :)

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brands online

Some good ideas there Wizard. :) Some questions popping up about Are you sure before rating neutral/negative? and Have you tried to resolve? I particularly like. Formal things like that from BOB do have a tendency to spur buyers on in certain instances.

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Alass
Hi all, I am worried as an international seller, Even with our system of not using the international postage and rather using freight companies we will always take longer to have goods delivered and will always be more expensive on shipping cost. even though frankly we are cheaper on shipping than many sellers currently on bid or buy.

 

I worry that Shipping time will affect us, our average is 7 days now our quickest has been 2 days longest was 14 days, from China. But there are many sellers who drop ship for instance who use standard unsafe postage which takes a very long time. they maybe good sellers but are reflected negatively by publishing delivery times. This concern applies to many local sellers as well as international sellers.

 

I agree here, We are in the United Kingdom and we have had to switch from Royal Mail International Signed for to DHL which quote 6 days for delivery, however if customs is required to be paid then DHL withhold the item if the buyer has not paid this or is not contactable.

I have had many buyers who have given us the wrong address on bidorbuy, or simply do not pay the customs until two months later when DHL contact us to inform us that they will be returning the item back...

 

Then we are rated negative for poor delivery ' took two months to deliver' when the buyers are also at fault here, and we cannot get rid of the negatives...which makes future buyers think we do not deliver prompty or for atleast two months.

 

The new ratings system would make these type of problems worse for us international sellers.:(

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Alass

Oh i forgot to say I also like Wizards idea

 

I also suffer from a good hundred buyers who receive their items but do not rate because they are happy and its too much effort to have to click the button

 

A nag screen will also help this.. you can perhaps have it so if a rating hasn't been provided within say 60 days the nag screen wont allow the buyer to proceed to view the site until they have indicated they have received their recent unrated purchase. If they click yes then an automatic positive is given. If they say no then an auto neutral is given.

 

The buyer then has the option to change the rating as per normal

 

This in my eyes would force the buyer to actually rate before they can carry on buying and not rating :P

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RAG Auctioneers

Just remember that a nag screen will make buyers rate their sellers, but some of those ratings may just be negatives.....

 

I dont think the buyer should be forced to rate sellers.

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Vinyl Lady Decals

Hi RAG

 

I think that depends entirely on when the nag screen starts appearing. If it starts appearing a month after the sale, then there should be many negatives. I say it should be a month as by that time, a buyer should have received their parcel (even from overseas sellers) and if it's a local parcel, the post office would have started sending un-collected parcels back to sender.

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sungems

To change the rating to a better rating system will take more than just changing a couple of things to make it successful

 

I just received the following NEUTRAL rating:

 

Good seller! Would suggest you show a photo of the actual size of the gem!

 

We clearly state in all our actions do not use the photo for size reference but to refer to the description for the actual size.

 

When after receiving the above rating and informing the buyer about it she change her rating (still neutral) to

 

Maybe the seller misunderstood my rating? I have not a problem with you or your product. but just for clarity for the uninformed.I suggested a photo!

 

Therefore still using the rating system repeatedly to convey messages instead of emailing us. She do have a rating score of 15 therefore new but not a real newbie.

 

I still am not sure what she wants. She seems satisfied with her products and our service but her rating does not show it and she do not make use of an email to make her suggestion to us. We will obviously continuo to communicate with her but for this thread's purpose we just want to show how the ratings are used on more than this one occasion

 

To get users not make use of the rating to convey messages or suggestions WITH A NEUTRAL selection will take more than just a few changes

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Vinyl Lady Decals

I have noticed a distinct increase in the number of "neutral" ratings that actually have a very negative comment. I get the impression that these buyers know that if they left a negative rating with the same comment, the seller would appeal the rating and ask for it to be removed (especially as in your case where the listing clearly gives instructions that were ignored) and that's why they rate it neutral. Very sneaky.

 

In this case, as this rating specifically mentions something that is mentioned in the listing, I would appeal it and ask that BoB remove it.

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BMW_M3_CSL

Overall I think the rating system works fine as it is i.e. positive, neutral or negative. My personal problem is when the seller rates the buyer "positive" then changes this rating if the buyer gives a neutral or negative - revenge rating. I dont see why it would want to change as the seller was satisifed that the buyer had met all his conditions thus the positive.

 

Why cant the system be locked once a rating has been given. If there are grounds to change this, a system must be put in place to evaluate this and all parties concerned must be given chance to air their views. I know this is going to cause problems but I still maintain that once you have rated a buyer it MUST NOT BE CHANGED especially once rated positivly. Dont rate if you suspect problems and rather wait a day or two longer before rating.

 

Another option would be to rate the buyer/seller using a split method. The current system can be amended to allow this and wont take up any real time. What I propose is to have a three month rate and the long term rate. The system already states how many positives etc he has had for the last three months and adding a percentage to this would indicate if the buyer/seller is improving or problems are occuring. The buyer/sellers that have built up a massive amount of sales wont be hurt by say 150 negative on total sales of 35000 i.e. no effect on overall rating BUT if buyer/seller has sold for say 500 items over the last three months, the rating would be 70% thus clearly indicating that a problem is developing with the seller

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Vinyl Lady Decals

I don't agree with you about locking a rating after it is given.

This will just cause sellers to not rate at all until the buyer has rated the seller which defeats the object of giving rating, in my opinion. No seller is all-knowing and wouldn't be able to "suspect" there might be problems unless knowing that they themselves were suspect in the first place. Now, who would ever think that of themselves?

 

I have had several experiences where I thought the whole transaction had been perfect and rated the buyer accordingly. To my surprise within a day or two of sending the parcel, I started getting accusatory and insulting emails and sms's from the buyers in question.

 

Informing the buyer that the seller is not responsible for the length of time that a parcel gets from one post office to another did not help either, neither did giving tracking results. Some people seem to think that parcels magically appear at their post offices within a day or two of posting. I have been sworn at and insulted in the past. This is the reason why I love the new messaging system, it should cut out this type of behaviour completely.

 

Naturally, in a case like that, the buyer has spoilt the entire transaction and as the rating is supposed to be for "the entire transaction", I have then changed my rating accordingly.

 

Also, it would be totally impractical to get BoB management involved every time a rating needs to be changed as people do make mistakes. For example, I mistakenly rated a person informing them their parcel had already been posted while it was actually waiting to be posted. I corrected it quickly, explaining the error. Imagine get BoB involved in something as trivial as that just because a rating is locked. They would need to hire more staff which would in turn cause the fees we pay to be hiked.

 

Your split rating idea is an interesting thought.

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mellowred

I have one problem with the present rating system:

 

When you have finished rating a buyer/seller, it is far too easy to press the wrong button and automatically rate the next item with exactly the same wording.

 

I have done this twice in the past, and have had it done to me a few times.

 

I am not referring to the automatic wording option; this problem occurs when you have rated, the rating screen pops back up, and then if you press enter or OK (I'm not sure which), it rates the next item.

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BMW_M3_CSL
I don't agree with you about locking a rating after it is given.

This will just cause sellers to not rate at all until the buyer has rated the seller which defeats the object of giving rating, in my opinion. No seller is all-knowing and wouldn't be able to "suspect" there might be problems unless knowing that they themselves were suspect in the first place. Now, who would ever think that of themselves?

 

I have had several experiences where I thought the whole transaction had been perfect and rated the buyer accordingly. To my surprise within a day or two of sending the parcel, I started getting accusatory and insulting emails and sms's from the buyers in question.

 

Your split rating idea is an interesting thought.

 

I know there are going to be instances where it is going to be a problem and that is why I say dont rate the buyer for example until the product has been delivered. If the buyer becomes abusive after this, dont sell to him/her again. As far as I am aware you can delete his/her bids and if they then complain provide the proof that this buyer is only vendictive and you prefer not to do business with them.

 

I dont know the answer how stop revenge ratings but this is an issue that needs to be addressed urgently. As one of my proposals is to suspend the account for a period of time to get the message across - this is especially vital for the much bigger sellers on BoB as their ratings look good overall BUT they have 100 plus negatives in any three month period. But please dont rate them negatively as they immediately respond with a revenge rating.

 

This thread needs to be looked at by all and EVERYBODY needs to give ideas, as all ideas will lead to an overall workable system. Even if you think your system isn't good enough, it might lead to another idea or a combination of ideas.

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