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RISadler

Block buyers...

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RISadler

qball, yes to (almost) everything, but...

 

If a seller abuses the blocking system, then (a) it is that particular seller losing out on sales, and (b) should be a good indication for bidorbuy management to investigate that particular seller.

 

Yes, bidorbuy also loses money if buyers are blocked and potential sales not realised, but frankly, do I care? No. What I care about is doing butter-smooth transactions and not having to deal with rude/ignorant buyers just for R3,75.

 

A lot of us sell on bidorbuy for the fun of it. But that fun ain't no more when buyers are rude, pull disappearing acts or revenge-rate/blackmail for refunds. The blocking mechanism gives us the ability to ensure we enjoy bidorbuy and can offer customer service with a smile.

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RISadler

Oh, speaking of "first-time" buyers, how about implementing a system whereby somebody (at bidorbuy) can contact the buyer to see if they are sincere and has the intention to conclude the deal? Especially regarding high-value items.

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lilythepink
qball, yes to (almost) everything, but...

 

If a seller abuses the blocking system, then (a) it is that particular seller losing out on sales, and (b) should be a good indication for bidorbuy management to investigate that particular seller.

 

Yes, bidorbuy also loses money if buyers are blocked and potential sales not realised, but frankly, do I care? No. What I care about is doing butter-smooth transactions and not having to deal with rude/ignorant buyers just for R3,75.

 

A lot of us sell on bidorbuy for the fun of it. But that fun ain't no more when buyers are rude, pull disappearing acts or revenge-rate/blackmail for refunds. The blocking mechanism gives us the ability to ensure we enjoy bidorbuy and can offer customer service with a smile.

 

Well said, RISadler. ;)

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qball

You raise valid points, however, we see things from both sides, not just a seller's point of view. Some sellers are doing more harm than good and yes, they should be investigated and action taken against them, but this is not solving the problem. Just as there are non paying bidders, ignorant buyers etc, the same applies to some sellers, poor service, no communication skills, non fulfillment or delivery etc. Most new bidders/buyers will be ignorant to some extent. Buying online can be daunting at the best of times, not all users are confident and are not familiar with how things work, even though we have a call centre, help section on the site, a forum etc.

 

We have to look after both sets of groups, buyers and sellers. As it stands at the moment all sellers should be concerned about this, part timers and regular sellers. Abuse happens from sellers and buyers alike, it's not just the buyers that cause these problems. What we are trying to get to is a balance or middle ground where we can cater for both.

 

This is where your valuable feedback can assist us in getting this balance, even though we may disagree on some points. Many sellers are rude, do not conclude deals and offer very little customer service to new buyers, that is just as bad as a non paying buyer or rude buyer. Remember we get both sides of the story and often we never get the truth from both parties. Again, this boils down to effective communication and customer service. Most of these issues can be resolved in this way.

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qball
Oh, speaking of "first-time" buyers, how about implementing a system whereby somebody (at bidorbuy) can contact the buyer to see if they are sincere and has the intention to conclude the deal? Especially regarding high-value items.

 

Thanks for the suggestion but not practical or logistically possible. Contacting someone does not guarantee they will conclude a transaction. That would be impossible to determine, enforce or predict. What would be next, lie detector and psychometric tests? ;)

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lilythepink
What would be next, lie detector and psychometric tests? ;)

 

Six months on the Forum could prove the authenticity (or otherwise) of any user's sanity! lol :P

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qball
Six months on the Forum could prove the authenticity (or otherwise) of any user's sanity! lol :P

 

You mean "insanity"??:D

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lilythepink

Now, now, Cuan! I do not live near a mental hospital for nothing! ;)

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RISadler
Thanks for the suggestion but not practical or logistically possible. Contacting someone does not guarantee they will conclude a transaction. That would be impossible to determine, enforce or predict. What would be next, lie detector and psychometric tests? ;)

 

Last month I had a person bid on a lens who had "no ratings", but had been a member since September 2009. She never paid.

 

What should I have done? Delete her bid outright, because it is suspicious that she never bought anything in 9 months? Or give her a chance (to default on the deal)?

 

Now if the "system" could have checked her out - maybe by sending a "please verify" email - I could have saved myself the frustration of waiting two weeks for the SNC to be concluded.

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RISadler
... we see things from both sides...

 

... We have to look after both sets of groups, buyers and sellers. What we are trying to get to is a balance or middle ground where we can cater for both. ...

 

... Remember we get both sides of the story...

 

This is irrelevant to the current discussion. We are talking about the facility given to sellers to block buyers at own discretion.

 

Yes, buyers should be protected, molly-coddled, etc. and that is why the current rating system should be expanded to include communication, postal cost, friendliness, etc.

 

But you should in this case look at it from the point of view of the seller and how this facility can be used to the advantage of sellers to protect them from rude/obnoxious/scaly buyers. There is no "both sides" here, just that of the seller.

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lilythepink
There is no "both sides" here, just that of the seller.

 

L O L!!

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RISadler

Just LOL?

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Little Miss Muffet

I marketed for over 20 years and believe me there are some buyers who really got to me.

There was one lady who must have been buying from me for over ten years and she always used to use her 5 fingers and knock on the table and always say

"Can't you make it just a little bit cheaper" Then one day she did something else to irritate me and I let her have it. I was so pissed off I told her to F.. off.

She went crying to one of the other marketers and then reported me to the chairman.

At the end of the day the chairman comes and reprimands me and says"I know what she is like she does the same to me but next time tell her to bugger off not....F" I really thought that was the last I would see of her but next week she was back and five fingers on the table.

At least she could not go and rate me.

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lilythepink
Just LOL?

 

Yes, because I see you as a dam ant (adamant) as far as selling is concerned! And you are right despite my laughing! :P

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Little Miss Muffet

RE: This business of blocking sellers. It is all very well to have instructions on how to buy and sell on Bidorbuy but when it comes to a controversial subject like blocking sellers perhaps a uniform letter should be drafted and sent out to buyers as to why sellers sometimes need to block buyers and rules and regulations to sellers re: blocking buyers.

I certainly feel more comfortable being able to block a buyer. I dont like giving negative ratings but when it is necessary then I feel the buyer may buy from me again just to get back at me.

We can delete a bid but that means watching every bid that comes through and that is not feasible.

Users who misuse the facility should be told so and why.

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Guest MacMuffin

As mentioned a few posts back, the SNC process is there to protect both buyer and seller when mediation/arbitration is required. The revenge ratings occur due to poor communication and misunderstanding and not following the correct process.

 

We did more analysis on why buyers got blocked:

  • for no reason - i.e. no SNC filed and no trade-relationship with seller (majority of cases)
  • SNC filed, but transaction concluded
  • SNC filed and retracted
  • SNC filed, no response from buyer
  • SNC filed, buyers appeal rejected
  • SNC filed, buyers appeal accepted/nobody at fault
  • SNC filed, buyers and seller agree to cancel transaction

 

I fully agree with blocked buyers where a SNC was filed because a buyer did not respond, or a buyer's appeal got rejected. But it in all other cases it makes no sense to have a buyer blocked.

 

To put this further into perspective: If you have only 1 SNC filed and blocked over 200 buyers, based on what was this block done (and this is very common across sellers blocking users in the hundreds)?

 

What we are trying to do is take emotion (= no SNC filed or SNC filed and buyer not at fault) out of this picture.

 

We have concluded that for now we will allow a seller to block a buyer as long as they had a trade-relationship (i.e. a sale). This means that you as a seller will be able to block a user even if no SNC has been placed. Likewise we will remove all blocked users which have had no trade-relationship over the last 90 days and have not been black-listed or SNCs filed against them.

 

We will also place a better explanation on the site for a blocked buyer when he/she wants to bid/purchase an item from a seller. We will send appropriate communication out to all sellers affected by this.

 

We want avoid the proliferation of SNC's but at the same time want to ensure that a seller had at least one trade-relation with a buyer before blocking that user - how do you guys feel about that?

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kebs

Sounds like a good idea.. I can't think why some-one would block a buyer if they haven't actually bought anything.. To be honest, I didn't even know you could do this! One assumes though, that if you get nasty messages etc on the ask a question function, one can report to bid or buy to take action? Just for interest's sake, what message do buyers get when they are blocked or try to buy something?

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RISadler

Mac, I looked at the "Sellers' Page" and the only way to block a buyer is if they have placed a bid on an item (which obviously includes winning it). So, those sellers with heaps of "blocked buyers" must have had bids placed by those buyers on their items... and then maybe asked to have the bids deleted?

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Guest MacMuffin
Mac, I looked at the "Sellers' Page" and the only way to block a buyer is if they have placed a bid on an item (which obviously includes winning it). So, those sellers with heaps of "blocked buyers" must have had bids placed by those buyers on their items... and then maybe asked to have the bids deleted?

 

true. the current bid-detail page however also allows a seller to block a buyer if he did not win the bid. I think this is probably the "easy link" which resulted in so many blocked buyers.

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RISadler

Mac, why not then remove those links, i.e. limit blocking to the winner of the auction.

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Guest MacMuffin
Mac, why not then remove those links, i.e. limit blocking to the winner of the auction.

 

Our changes will pretty much do what you said - we only display the block links if a seller had a sales-relationship with a buyer. This has just been released into production.

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mellowred
Our changes will pretty much do what you said - we only display the block links if a seller had a sales-relationship with a buyer. This has just been released into production.

 

Wonderful solution Mac.

 

This would solve possibly 90% of the unwarranted blocks. Many sellers are wary of first time buyers and delete bids and block bidders with no ratings.

 

Although I sympathise with the sellers' reasoning behind this, it is very bad for BoB business and completely negates the work you guys have done in getting BoB up the Google ranks.

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Guest MacMuffin
Wonderful solution Mac.

 

This would solve possibly 90% of the unwarranted blocks. Many sellers are wary of first time buyers and delete bids and block bidders with no ratings.

 

Although I sympathise with the sellers' reasoning behind this, it is very bad for BoB business and completely negates the work you guys have done in getting BoB up the Google ranks.

 

Nice to see that you agree mellowred. The above change has been released and we are just fixing a small bug on the new Sales pages (you can not block the buyer via the "Block Buyer" link) - but this should be fixed before lunch time.

 

We have not yet cleaned up the currently blocked buyers and sent out communication, but will do so in the next few days...

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lilythepink

I also agree with mellowred's sentiments. It's just not fair to block first time buyers just because they are new to BoB. We all have buyers who don't pay and it is quite often NOT the newbies!

 

What absolutely amazes me is how people can wait almost a month before telling a seller that they "were in hospital and had an operation"!! This only happened to me when I filed an SNC. :rolleyes:

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RISadler
Mac, why not then remove those links, i.e. limit blocking to the winner of the auction.

 

Our changes will pretty much do what you said - we only display the block links if a seller had a sales-relationship with a buyer. This has just been released into production.

 

On fourth thought, maybe not such a good idea. How do you handle geewhizz's finger-tapping lady? What I mean is, for example, a buyer incessantly asks for a lower price or buy-x-get-one-free deals or such things, without actually winning an auction/buy-it-now. I sure would like to block this person.

 

Also, I suspect many "newbies" on bidorbuy are just alter egos.

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