What is born everyday?

[alloway65 10]

One can damage a coin to get a lower grade, I heard this is done....... but one can not (maybe) improve a coin to get a higher grade!!!!!:confused::rolleyes:

[4kids 10]

Just how difficult is it to open these "containers" and then replace the coin with one of lower quality?

 

 

Absolutely not possible with at least the NGC and PCGS holders. I can not comment on any other graded pieces.

[4kids 10]

GENERAL COMMENT:

 

I certainly do not agree with some grades attributed to a coin in a minority of NGC graded pieces as I myself had some issues. However it is clear that some postings happen without the poster giving thought and or at least doing some research on the party they want to attack in public. Each buyer does have a recourse with NGC and I would like to direct all concerned parties to the following link:

 

Note that NGC is the abbreviation for "Numismatic Guaranty Corporation" The Americans way of English.

 

NGC's coin grading guaranty for coin dealers.

 

Note that there is a guarantee valid for 10 years from date of encapsulation Grading by NGC"

 

 

Airing uneducated and misinformed opinions in public does not do anything positive for this hobby regardless if you like or dislike graded coins.

 

Also note that PCGS has a similar policy seen here:

 

PCGS.com - PCGS Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity ? United States Coins

 

Happy collecting.

[EWAAN Galleries 11]

Hi

 

Yes totally agree with 4kids - have seen some funny mistakes by both NGC and PCGS.

 

We should remember that grading is just ones opinion and it is good to have especially for new collectors.

 

We can sit and argue and debate about the way they grade the coin, but in the end we still need them.

 

But bottom line is that it is just an opinion of an ordinary human being

[design_hibo 10]

Everytime I see the SACGS logo, I feel like scratching out my eyes with a sharp object

[ECONOZONE 10]

You can't say this grading company or that can be sold on Bid or Buy and not others. We are supposed to have a free market.My worst Numismatic experience was when I bought a 1894 pond from one of SA's top top experts sent it for grading and it came back not genuine.He took the coin back but what if I had not sent it for grading, I would be sitting with a forgery. How many people are sitting with rubbish in their collections having paid thousands and thousands for coins.The grading companies make mistakes but I would buy a graded coin before I bought a raw coin from an expert after that experience.

[Dulal 10]

What Is Born-------------

 

I would be interested in how "Telescopic" arrives at an indicative market price of ZAR22000 when any coin of this type at a higher grade can be technically worn to get the same grading!

 

I recently paid just over ZAR100 for a MS66 graded 90th borthday coin (slabbed)

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

 

 

 

Hi Scott

What you really bought? A coin or a slab or a slabbed coin? When SCOTT BALSON buy a MS66 Mandela 90TH birthday coin(!). it suprised me (as a newcomer), make me think, look for reason- with no convincing reason I find. Only answer- there is always something new to learn. But what, how, when?

 

Dulal

[MrBosch 10]

Can't wait...

 

...for the XF and VF specimens!

 

Sick

2008 Birthday R5 - One of only three AU50 (ultra ultra rare!!!!) for sale in Johannesburg

[Dulal 10]

...for the XF and VF specimens!

 

Sick

2008 Birthday R5 - One of only three AU50 (ultra ultra rare!!!!) for sale in Johannesburg

 

 

Looks like there will be huge demand for PO-1,FR-2,AG-3 grades of Mandela coins.

 

Dulal

[DennisPM 10]

Hi

 

Was seriously thinking of starting to collect coins but after reading this thread have decided I am better off (and safer) staying with stamp collecting:eek::eek:

 

Regards

Dennis

[EishGK 10]

Hi Dennis

 

I think you may well be over-reacting by not wanting to expand your hoby in numismatics. I have been collecting coins since a little boy but it has only been a few years now that I can say that I have taken numismatics seriously. The Mandela hype is a strange phenomena indeed and to base your decision on whether to collect coins or not on this phenomenon will be a poor choice.

I honestly believe that coin collecting is based on a passion to own the best possible grade or specimen of a specific era of coins (ZAR for example). Others believe that all grades of a single coin (Mandela coin in question) is more to there liking. Cetain colector beieve type set colecting is more to their liking. Some pepole ony collect error coins. So you see, there are many facets of numismatics to concentrate on.

I say that if you really serious about numismatics, then this forum is an excellent starting place. You must aggree, there is nothing much positive being said about the Mandela Birtday coin so then stay away from it. Did you read the other fascinating stories and seen the other prized coins being discussed here? (Single 9, Proof ZAR Crowns, 1936 Uncirculaeted Farthing, The various vairty of coins as discussed by Aljada, etc) These are but tips of the iceberg in this field.

Personally, I would say that the only good Birthday coin to own is the one in the highest possible grade because one cannot genuinely manipulate a coin to achieve a higher grade (MAY WELL BE OPEN TO DEBATE!!!) where as a person can tamper with a coin to achieve a lower grade. High grade specimens will always be limited.

Old ZAR and Union coins are a real challenge to collect: Maybe this will be a good start for you. Dont give up on numismatics because of a single coin minted in a single year!

Another good place to to gain knowledge is by stuying the USA numismatic market. This is a very well developed market. I often still find myself asking: Why are the prices realised for SA coins so much less than for for those in the American market, especially when our coins are of a much, much , much lower mintage than most of theirs?

So please re-think your decision and I garantee you that you will find numismatics a really challenging hobby from which you will derive much pleasure. It really is something when you finally complete a collection, or find a new variety, or find an error coin, or dicover something new.

Go on - give it a try.

 

Cheers

Hassim

[Pierre_Henri 35]

Here we go again ....

 

Seems like nothing helped to stop this SAME SELLER selling coins on BoB ...

 

Graded Coins - 1896 ZAR 2.5 SHILLING GRADED SACGS "VF-30",an 1897 ms64 was sold for $$1070. for sale in Athlone

 

He or she is selling a coin dated 1896 but is referring to a coin dated 1897 for what reason?

 

How many warnings have this seller had?

 

Pierre

[Bellcoin 10]

As I said earlier " once bitten........" problem the seller I think does not realize is that he/she will create a negative perception regarding future sales he/she places.

 

A reputation is a hard earn but so easy to ruin. How many bidders, I wonder do not bid already.

 

Pity, how many buyers have been bitten so far?

[mellowred 10]

The problem with these listings is that the seller is guilty of using extremely misleading wording in the headings, but (if you read the whole listing) is not lying. Some poor unsuspecting soul would not have a legal leg to stand on if they decided to accuse the seller of fraudulent advertising.

 

This is a particularly sly way of painting a very rosy picture of the item they are selling.

 

Has anyone invited him/her to read this thread?

 

On a slightly different subject but referring to the same seller: I don't know anything about coins, but from the prices these are fetching I assume they are not particularly sought after coins. Is the discrete option valid for these auctions?

[coinoisseur 11]

A lot of sellers put "bells and Whistles" in their descriptions to get a coin sold. Not sure what a Proof coin mintage has to do with a circulation VeldPond

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/22920300/Finest_Known_Lowest_Mintage_508_1956_POUND_NCG_PF67_Lower_Mintage_Than_VeldPond.html

 

 

Cheers

[qball 12]

Seems like nothing helped to stop this SAME SELLER selling coins on BoB ...

 

Graded Coins - 1896 ZAR 2.5 SHILLING GRADED SACGS "VF-30",an 1897 ms64 was sold for $$1070. for sale in Athlone

 

He or she is selling a coin dated 1896 but is referring to a coin dated 1897 for what reason?

 

How many warnings have this seller had?

 

Pierre

 

Good day Pierre

 

Seller has only received 1 warning in this regard, they have been issued with a final warning and their account disabled for a week for non compliance.

 

Whilst we don't encourage such listings it is the responsibility of the buyer to do their research first before purchasing. Willing seller, willing buyer.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

[Vertigo 10]

Hi , The Herns Book States That The Veldpond Has A Mintage Of Over 700 Coins, The 1956 Pound Has A Mintage Of Just Over 500,

I Dont See Anything Wrong, If Bid Or Buy Feels That I Should Change My Description I Will. However The Mintages Are Lower Than The Veldpond On Many Other Coins As Well.... Warm Regards Imraan

[4kids 10]

Hi , The Herns Book States That The Veldpond Has A Mintage Of Over 700 Coins, The 1956 Pound Has A Mintage Of Just Over 500,

I Dont See Anything Wrong, If Bid Or Buy Feels That I Should Change My Description I Will. However The Mintages Are Lower Than The Veldpond On Many Other Coins As Well.... Warm Regards Imraan

 

 

I agree with pboss in this regard. The seller of this piece is merely pointing out that based on mintage figures the coin he is selling is in his opinion and based on fact a rarer piece based on mintage figures than what the Veldpond is. Fact, Fact and Fact. He also does not mislead buyers in any way and it would be up to a buyer to decide the worth of the piece on offer.

 

Just to clarify:

 

NGC graded a total of 117 Veldponde so far in comparison with only 34 Proof 1956 Pounds. The PF67 grade on the 1956 Pound is shared in highest grade with 2 other i.e. total of 3 Graded is this highest grade to date.

 

I have seen all the top sellers using descriptions and wording in their listings in this manner. I do my homework and research my subject before buying.

[Pierre_Henri 35]

No problem

 

I also agree with pboss (and 4kids) - nothing wrong there.

 

Thank you also to the BoB-team for stepping up when things really go wrong

 

Pierre

[coinoisseur 11]

I agree 100%..... The mintage is lower, but how can you compare a coin thats not intended for circulation with a coin that was circulated with almost the same mintage figure. The 1956 Pond you will always find, not the VeldPond..... Nothing wrong with the comparasin but you should be comparing like for like. The price difference between the two coins is chalk and cheese.....

 

But your are correct, its up to the buyer to decide........

 

 

 

 

Cheers

[Vertigo 10]

Hi All,,,

 

I agree with Anthony with regard to chalk and cheese on the 2 coins , i have been fortunate to hold 2 different grades of veld ponds , as well as a proof pond ,

the feeling is totally different to holding my 1956 Pound, and I'm sure many numismats share the same sentiment, as it's the scarcity , price , and history behind the coin that adds to its appeal.

I have changed my listing description to "Lowest Mintage Of The Series" , Although my initial Description was a FACT.

 

Warm regards

Imraan:cool:

[Guest Guest]

Consider the history

 

I agree with you Imraan and Anthony

 

Considering the extraordinary history of the Veldpond (including its unique manufacture) I think it is a travesty to compare "mintages" on ALMOST ANY other coin as a basis of value or scarcity - regardless of any other factor.

 

The Veldpond is in a collectable class shared by very few other South African numismatic pieces.

 

I have a couple of unique South African trade tokens but they will never realise the demand or value of a Veldpond which has a "much higher mintage".

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

[coinoisseur 11]

I have changed my listing description to "Lowest Mintage Of The Series"

 

Well done !!!!! In doing so, you have the best interest for numismatics going forward...

 

 

 

Cheers

[Dulal 10]

HI Imrann, Anthony, Pierre,Scott, 4 kids and everybody

 

Discussion in this post end -up very healthy specially with edited listing description by Imrann. Thank you Imrann. You set an example. Thanks to all of you.

 

Dulal

`our attitude dictates our altitude`

[Vertigo 10]

 

Well done !!!!! In doing so, you have the best interest for numismatics going forward...

 

 

 

Cheers

 

HI ALL,

 

I COULD HAVE LEFT THE DESCRIPTION AS LOWER MINTAGE THAN THE VELDPOND AS IT IS A FACT, HOWEVER IF THAT COIN WERE TO SELL , I WOULD BE DOING MY INTEGRITY DOWN AS A TRADER/COLLECTOR. AS THE BUYER WHO WOULD HAVE PROBABLY THOUGHT IT WOULD BE WORTH MORE THAN THE VELDPOND.

I HAVE PAID SCHOOL FEES WHEN I STARTED COLLECTIONG AND I FEEL IT'S UNFAIR ON OTHERS WHO DO NOT RESEARCH COINS PRIOR TO PURCHASE.

 

MY HEART BLEEDS WHEN I SEE BIRTHDAY R5's going for the price of my finest known pound

MINTAGE 5 MILLION APPOSED TO 508

 

:confused::confused::confused: