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gemzone

The Hydrothermal Citrine and Amethyst Saga

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gemzone    10
gemzone

Good morning to you,

 

I think it is time for a little experiment regarding the authenticity of the Citrines and Amethysts on offer on BoB. Lukeness, I am willing to sponsor the purchase of 10 stones from various sellers.

 

You pick them, place your bids and I will sponsor the funds for the purchases. Could you then possibly have the testing done? I will also contribute towards the costs of testing, but would ask for a pref. rate, if possible. All you need to do is document your progress in this thread ie. what you bought with links to those items, who you bought from as well as the results.

 

We can then once and for all put to bed the speculation and give factual proof to that effect.

 

Your thoughts?

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Lukeness    10
Lukeness

Good idea. Perhaps we should look at more than hydrothermal quartzes (LATER OF COURSE). Irradiated and coated stones are another huge one (often made using hydrothermal quartz).

Diffused too.

I will wager that at least 50% of all sapphires and rubies being sold are either Be diffused, diffused or glass filled without either of these facts being disclosed.

Once again I must stress that I believe selling stones with any of these treatments is fine, as long as the seller is honest about it and discloses the fact. Buyers of glass filled rubies need to know that their durability is compromised and the treatment non-permanent. I'd hate to buy and stone that came apart after a heavy cleaning, which any corrundum should handle easily.

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alloway65    10
alloway65

Hi from Dave,

Sorry I missed this thread, been a bit busy.

I have over the past few months purched a fair quantity of large ("Perfect") Citrines and Amethysts etc on BoB, refer to alloway65 on BoB! I would be prepared to "donate" some of these stones for said definitive tests. Would these be destructive tests? Since I already have the stones with the record of purchases being on BoB, would some of these stones be OK? However, on this basis, what sort of costs are we talking about for the authenticiy tests? As they are my stones I would still however be prepared to pay part of the costs for these tests. If the tests are non destructive I assume the stones will then be returned to me? :D

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Valley Gems    10
Valley Gems

Hi Their

 

I will if agreed volounteer to arrange for the tests to be conducted and am also prepared to contribute toward the costs.Let me know what you have and I will get a quote at a special rate. It is not neccessary for the tests to always be destructive as their are other indicators.

Regards

Chris

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alloway65    10
alloway65

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the offer! Still await a response from Gemzone & Lukeness, if my offer is accepted and what stones in particular they want to have tested. It will be great to get to the bottom of this problem. I have more or less stopped buying Gems at the moment due to the hydrothermal problem.

Have a great weekend.

Best regards

David :D

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gemzone    10
gemzone

Good day to you,

 

As far as the tests are concerned, I can not answer. My offer stands that I will sponsor either some purchases made by Lukeness, or alternatively also contribute towards the tests done.

 

Just let me know how you guys want to proceed.

 

Regards

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Valley Gems    10
Valley Gems

Hi Guys

 

I am ready, I have spoken to Mrs Snyman from EGL who is a qualified and registered Gemmologist and she is ready

Regards

Chris

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Lukeness    10
Lukeness

Hi

 

I think the idea is great. The tests should not be destructive except in a few cases where other methods are inconclusive because newer hydrothermal methods disguise many of the previously safe natural indicators. But for almost all cases destructive testing should not be necessary.

Testing for heat treatment, irradiation, diffusion or coatings will not be destructive.

 

Any nominations for stones?

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alloway65    10
alloway65

Good day all,

I have a quantity of large IF & VVS1 Citrines, as well as Amethysts and quartz' of various colours....some bright blue ones that look fake. My offer as above still stands, but I dont have time to be in the middle of complicated & protracted discussions.

The experts on this Forum should inform what stones are required and I willl ship Speed Services to wherever. Refer to alloway65 for all my gemstone purchases on BoB.

For my own edification what are the basic differences between CZ's and Hydothermal gemstones...excuse my lack of knowledge!

Await "nominations" as I am sure a lot of buyers like me are now very cautious about buying gemstones on BoB. :?

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Lukeness    10
Lukeness

Hydrothermal gemstones refer to stones chemically identical to their natural counterparts that are created using the hydrothermal (as opposed to flux melt etc) process. CZs are a man-made gemstone cubic zirconia (not to be mistaken for zircon) which is not a copy of a natural stone.

Hydrothermal gems are therefore synthetic, while CZs are simulants.

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AGV Gems    10
AGV Gems

Hydrothermal Method

 

High quality emerald, as well as other stones for example aquamarine, morganite, and beryl, can be lab grown by the hydrothermal method.

It uses a water solution at very high temperature and pressure and takes several months to create a batch of stones chemically identical to their natural counterparts.

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alloway65    10
alloway65

Thanks guys for the information on the Hydrothermal system works.

 

Chris what quotes did you get for checking the (to be) nominated stones. (How much per stone).

 

Who is going to take charge of the whole process financial and technical. As all interested parties will have to make a deposit to pay for a portion of the testing etc.

 

Should the results indicate the some or all of the gem stones tested are hydrothermal....then what....we know BoB is weak in policing! Will the guilty sellers be banned from BoB.

 

Further, as Hydrothermal stones are so like natural stones, sellers in future can still sell Hydrothermal stones as Natural stones and no one will be any the wiser without testing every stone!

 

A quandry. :!:

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Lukeness    10
Lukeness

As with most synthetics there are certain tell-tale characteristics to look out for before needing testing. These should be sufficient for most gems. Those that are very expensive should be tested anyway.

I will list them as soon as I get a chance,

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pepper007    10
pepper007

Hi there all

 

Be interested to find out if anything has happened yet?

 

Regards

pepper

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motherearth    10
motherearth

Just assume that all Amethyst and Citrine listed are Hydrothermal! ie- synthetic, especially those with very good colour, in my opinion only Gems Direct is elling natural, obvious by the pale colours

 

Jeff

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SSGEMS    10
SSGEMS

I am embarrased to say that I have also been duped with a "fantastic" citrine. From a very reputable dealer. I bought on "spec" and only realised after I saw the stone in natural light. That particular shade of orange just does not exist in that size and clarity in nature. Like many have said before, if it looks too good to be true it probably is!

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Lukeness    10
Lukeness

Nothing to be embarrassed about. I don't know any gem collector who has never been caught out in some way at least a few times.

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SSGEMS    10
SSGEMS

The only sad thing is, the guy I bought from and have been buying for many years, lost me as a customer. He still maintains that he sold me a genuine citrine.

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Lukeness    10
Lukeness

Sadly, many will not know the difference. Even after years in the business.

The costs of conclusively testing any kind of quartz is just not worth it.

 

I wouldn't write the seller off that easily (just be more wary) as he could be quite genuine in his belief when he tells you that.

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pepper007    10
pepper007

So sorry to hear this ... :(

 

I also had the same problem but decided all is not lost and am making silver tuti-fruti bracelets out of them! Great presies!

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GemDeals    10
GemDeals

Hi Guys,

 

Please post links of the items, if you do not do it we will never reach an solution. ;) It's really important! :)

 

Chris.

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