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Do bidders actually understand the NGC coin grading scale?

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4kids

These pieces graded by the local grading guys.

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Pierre_Henri

I do not follow you?

 

I for one can tell you that when I find these coins that come back with higher grades, I get rid of them as fast as I can. Contrary to what most people believe, quite a few of them will turn out to have a lot more coins end up as MS in the census than what shows at this time.

 

What coins are you talking about? I do not follow what you are saying? Are you talking about Mandela R5 coins or collectable coins like the George V series?

 

Pierre

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jwither
What coins are you talking about? I do not follow what you are saying? Are you talking about Mandela R5 coins or collectable coins like the George V series?

 

Pierre

 

I have never bought a Mandela coin and doubt I ever will. I do not collect that type of RSA material.

 

The coins I am talking about about are KGVI but yes, even some KGV.

 

I believe that many of these coins are far more available than many, maybe most think. Not all of them, but many of them. They are still RELATIVELY scarce but that does not preclude the census populations from reaching into the hundreds for some of them.

 

Today, the census pops of KGVI are lower than some of the KGV but its not because of their scarcity. Its because they are less popular and worth less money.

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JOHNEL

I think we should start posting questions to these sellers selling the low graded coins to unsuspecting buyers at ridiculous prices by misleading them ie "How many of these coins were minted " or "how does it compare to a ms 67".

Lets see if anyone gets a answer .......I doubt it !!!! anyone willing to sponsor a prize for the one getting an answer??

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Rare NotesCoins

They will only delete youre qeustion and go on selling it the way they want. What Pi..s me of is that a guy will pay his a.. of for a coin that is worth R5 but will not buy a graded Zar or GeorgeV MS or Proof coin. What it does is also giving sellers a bad report and then we all are put under the same banner. They will never sell those coins at even a fraction of that price. So those coin deallers are all the bloo.y same. It the same when people come to me that have bought a Special SA "munt" for R9500 and its worth R100. Then they want to know from me why they were done in.

 

Unfortuanatlly because you were greedy and stupid.

Just my opinion

Morne

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Vertigo

Eish

 

2008 Birthday R5 - "MS69~FINEST KNOWN"~FINEST SPECIMEN~ NGC Graded Mandela 2008 Birthday R5 Coin @ cRaZy R1 Start!!!! for sale in Richards Bay / Empangeni (ID:23365466)

 

Hi, for 55K , i could have been stupid and bought 10 X XF ponds/1/2 ponds , or just settled for 5 decent AU's with a possible minstate or 2 included.

 

It would be a gold hedge , and at least i could smelt it , unlike the R5 coin with a "minor" mintage of only 5 million.

 

Looking at my past sales when the coin was released a got a few from the bank and sent them out with my other coins.

 

I can remember that i sold an MS67 at a cool R2750 and other sellers were fetching up to R3000. (Good Old Days).

 

Census on the R2008 R5 - over 30000 coins graded

R2000 R5 - under 3000 coins graded

R1994 R5 - under 3000 coins graded

 

Also remember the older coins are harder to come by and will grade Lower and grow faster in value.

 

I feel sorry for the poor bloke flushing R55k down the drain. :o

 

Warm Regards

Verts

 

 

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MsPlod

No prizes BUT....

 

I think we should start posting questions to these sellers selling the low graded coins to unsuspecting buyers at ridiculous prices by misleading them ie "How many of these coins were minted " or "how does it compare to a ms 67".

Lets see if anyone gets a answer .......I doubt it !!!! anyone willing to sponsor a prize for the one getting an answer??

 

I actually DID ask a question of one of the many R5 birthday coin sellers a few weeks back, the poor fellow actually did NOT know that there were 5 million R5 birthday coins and did leave my question in the Q&A. :P

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MsPlod

And then....

 

I actually DID just get an answer ...

 

Q

Please could you explain why this is a rare set of coins when there were 5 million coins minted and many thousands have been graded? - Asked by MsPlod (504 rating4.gif)

18 Jul 20:36

 

A

HI OUT OF 1 MILLION MINTED THERE ARE FEW OF MS62 46 ONLY

MS63 IS 250

THE MS66 HAS 25 000 SO FAR GRADED

THE 67 HAS 7432 GRADED

18 Jul 20:52

 

The seller in question answered it and left it in the Q&A... ;)

The horror of it all, is that it will probably prompt some poor kippie to think that the seller is making sense:confused:

 

I simply do not have the heart to pursue the matter since the seller has answered my question - in all likelihood in good faith!

 

The set in question?

 

EXTREMELY RARE NGC SET 6 COINS 2008 MANDELA BIRTHDAY COINS GRADED MS62/63/64/65/66/67

 

AND.... there is a buyer, for just under R4000 :eek:

 

Aaaaaaaargh. Off for a stiff drink!!

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Little Miss Muffet

I have 60 Mandela R5 coins which are probably MS 63-67.

 

Gonna get that camera out and go on an overseas trip.

Watch my billboard:D

 

Can coin collectors or anyone else tell me--Have you ever seen these coins in circulation? I have been given 1 for change since they went into circulation or when they were supposed to go into circulation.

I have 60. Where are the 4 million? Virtually all these coins must be in a good grading condition or am I missing something.

What chance do we have of coming across an ordinary 2010 R5 coin if 4 million were minted?

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alloway65

I have never seen one of these coins in circulation...I think most were snapped up in bulk on the day/week of issue. Also I have a feeling that banks are still sitting on bags of these coins.

I have at least 400 of these coins that I have not even looked at yet...will do one day. I think the market for these coins will die a natural death just like what happened to the Mandela Birthday FDC's and Hard Cover Booklets.:rolleyes:

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MsPlod

Natural death...

 

I have never seen one of these coins in circulation...I think most were snapped up in bulk on the day/week of issue. Also I have a feeling that banks are still sitting on bags of these coins.

I have at least 400 of these coins that I have not even looked at yet...will do one day. I think the market for these coins will die a natural death just like what happened to the Mandela Birthday FDC's and Hard Cover Booklets.:rolleyes:

 

At the moment they are living the most exceptionally unnatural life! :P

 

2008 Birthday R5 - THIS ARE THE SET U WANT FOR MADIBAS BIRTHDAY 10 COINS was sold for R14,250.00 on 18 Jul at 20:00 by ProductExchange in Johannesburg (ID:23929230)

 

Sold last night for R14 000 ! :eek: graded by sacgs - quite a thing!

 

and this one too....

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/23416501/WOW_ALMOST_COMPLETE_SET_SACGS_GRADED_2008_MANDELA_BIRTHDAY_COINS_ms60_ms67.html

 

and this one

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/23943060/EXTREMELY_RARE_NGC_SET_6_COINS_2008_MANDELA_BIRTHDAY_COINS_GRADED_MS62_63_64_65_66_67.html

 

in which the answer to the question by Naidoo7 is quite something...

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Pierre_Henri

How about this?

 

I also wonder if bidders always know what they are bidding on...

 

I have a suggestion to make - I will put a Mandela 90th birthday coin in a slab and grade it myself as a MS71

 

The grading company on the slab holder will be known as MMMCG (Moer Maar dit is Mooi Coin Grading Services)

 

I will then list it on BoB as the highest ever graded Mandela R5 AND the worlds higest graded coin ever.

 

Whatever the winning amount is, the winning bidder will be informed afterwards that he gets the coin for free bar my BoB commision fees - I will pay the listing fees out of my own pocket

 

The reason for this endeviour / trial is to see how gullable some buyers on BoB really are...

 

What would BoB's take on this be?- Technically I would not be overstepping any rules of BOB as far as I know?

 

Pierre

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admin

Hi Pierre,

 

Unfortunately bidorbuy does not allow us to use test auctions, only for the IT team to test new features before implementation.

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MsPlod
I also wonder if bidders always know what they are bidding on...

 

I have a suggestion to make - I will put a Mandela 90th birthday coin in a slab and grade it myself as a MS71

 

The grading company on the slab holder will be known as MMMCG (Moer Maar dit is Mooi Coin Grading Services)

 

I will then list it on BoB as the highest ever graded Mandela R5 AND the worlds higest graded coin ever.

 

Whatever the winning amount is, the winning bidder will be informed afterwards that he gets the coin for free bar my BoB commision fees - I will pay the listing fees out of my own pocket

 

The reason for this endeviour / trial is to see how gullable some buyers on BoB really are...

 

What would BoB's take on this be?- Technically I would not be overstepping any rules of BOB as far as I know?

 

Pierre

 

This would be absolutely wonderful to watch - cruel but very funny!;)

 

Hi Pierre,

 

Unfortunately bidorbuy does not allow us to use test auctions, only for the IT team to test new features before implementation.

 

Darn!! Would it not be possible to make an exception - just this once? heh heh heh - could serve as a very useful tool to educate folks to do their homework...:P

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Guest Guest

Would an FAQ on BoB help?

 

I would be more interested to know why collectors are actually bidding for these coins? If I was interested in collecting Mandela coins I would be seeking out more information before spending bucket loads of money on them. As I said in another thread there is an enormous opportunity here for SAAND dealers to sponsor new clubs in areas like Soweto. That would help them get a better basic insight and guidelines into what is valuable and what is not.

 

I have a feeling the buyers are probably a new generation of collectors who are being misled by circumstances we are not aware of in the forum and that is NOT good for our hobby.

 

One thing I am sure of - the buyers of some of these dubious listings are not collectors who have a solid knowledge of our hobby. Perhaps BoB could have a simple FAQ on the coin thread to help these novice collectors.

 

Kind regards

 

Scott Balson

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

Hi all

As far as i could see not one of these coins was sold under anything but a discreet listing.My opinion is that someone is trying to create a an unrealistic price for future sales and the coins are not actually sold??Only thing that makes sense to me.

.I wish one of the three main sellers would for once,just once please place one of these coins on a open listing so we can see the genuineness of the bids!!!Anyway there is such a thing as be patient when buying these advertised coins as suddenly they pop up again and when there was the the first and only one there are suddenly more and then there were 500 0proof minted??really,the sa mint does not know about this!!

Also in my opinion grading of coins is purely about the economics of making money.

NEIL

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MsPlod

Not so discreet...

 

Hi all

As far as i could see not one of these coins was sold under anything but a discreet listing.My opinion is that someone is trying to create a an unrealistic price for future sales and the coins are not actually sold??Only thing that makes sense to me.

.I wish one of the three main sellers would for once,just once please place one of these coins on a open listing so we can see the genuineness of the bids!!!Anyway there is such a thing as be patient when buying these advertised coins as suddenly they pop up again and when there was the the first and only one there are suddenly more and then there were 500 0proof minted??really,the sa mint does not know about this!!

Also in my opinion grading of coins is purely about the economics of making money.

NEIL

 

Agreed about discreet listings, but none of the links I provided below were for discreet listings...:cool:

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

Hi

I was actually referring to the proof 90th brthday coins which have appeared-All those were sold under discreet listings-

NEIL

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qball
I also wonder if bidders always know what they are bidding on...

 

I have a suggestion to make - I will put a Mandela 90th birthday coin in a slab and grade it myself as a MS71

 

The grading company on the slab holder will be known as MMMCG (Moer Maar dit is Mooi Coin Grading Services)

 

I will then list it on BoB as the highest ever graded Mandela R5 AND the worlds higest graded coin ever.

 

Whatever the winning amount is, the winning bidder will be informed afterwards that he gets the coin for free bar my BoB commision fees - I will pay the listing fees out of my own pocket

 

The reason for this endeviour / trial is to see how gullable some buyers on BoB really are...

 

What would BoB's take on this be?- Technically I would not be overstepping any rules of BOB as far as I know?

 

Pierre

 

The intention would be to mislead therefore we would not allow it. If there are issues with a particular listing please report it to communitywatch@bidorbuy.co.za with the relevant proof and explanations so we can investigate further. Official mintage figures, graded figures whcih can be verified etc.

 

Thank you.

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MsPlod

OK - so that is a non-starter, BUT...

 

Perhaps BoB could have a simple FAQ on the coin thread to help these novice collectors.

 

Would BoB be prepared to institute such a sticky?

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MsPlod

OK Cuan...

 

The intention would be to mislead therefore we would not allow it. If there are issues with a particular listing please report it to communitywatch@bidorbuy.co.za with the relevant proof and explanations so we can investigate further. Official mintage figures, graded figures whcih can be verified etc.

 

Thank you.

Here is an example - one of many so apologies to the seller - they were selected at random...

 

Graded - SUPER Scarce !!! *** NGC AU58*** Birthday Mandela R5 *** Crazy R1 Start !!! for sale in Johannesburg (ID:24037871)

 

This is misleading - what they mean is that there are not many of these coins which have been GRADED AU58

 

The grade AU58 might be valuable for a 1892 penny (for example) but for a coin such as the Mandela 2008 R5 - it means nothing other than a relatively low grade coin - one of 5 million minted.

 

Does BoB really need to have these things spelled out?

 

Please could there be a "coin-selling code of ethics" similar to that of the gem-sellers?

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qball
Here is an example - one of many so apologies to the seller - they were selected at random...

 

Graded - SUPER Scarce !!! *** NGC AU58*** Birthday Mandela R5 *** Crazy R1 Start !!! for sale in Johannesburg (ID:24037871)

 

This is misleading - what they mean is that there are not many of these coins which have been GRADED AU58

 

The grade AU58 might be valuable for a 1892 penny (for example) but for a coin such as the Mandela 2008 R5 - it means nothing other than a relatively low grade coin - one of 5 million minted.

 

Does BoB really need to have these things spelled out?

 

Please could there be a "coin-selling code of ethics" similar to that of the gem-sellers?

 

This is exactly the point - "what they mean is that there are not many of these coins which have been GRADED AU58".

 

To some people it is scarce because there may not be many of these coins of this grade around. This is often very subjective. We always offer the following advice to buyers - they needs to do their homework first. We also advise the following - Willing seller willing buyer. We would not necessarily take steps against a seller because of this.

 

Unfortunately, yes, this does need to be spelled out for us as we are not experts in coins, so official documented mintage figures, proof of scarcity, grading censuses etc. would need to be supplied to us to make an informed decision on this.

 

We would be happy to have an unofficial guideline drawn up by the coin sellers/buyers which could be used to educate new users (buyers and sellers alike), much like the gemstone category.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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EishGK
Hi all

As far as i could see not one of these coins was sold under anything but a discreet listing.My opinion is that someone is trying to create a an unrealistic price for future sales and the coins are not actually sold??Also in my opinion grading of coins is purely about the economics of making money.

NEIL

 

Hi All

 

I would think it ludricrous for somebody to 'create an unrealistic price.....' for these coins. I listed an MS61 some months ago which sold for well over a R1000. I was shocked that a coin of such low grading would sell for so much but it did. 'A willing seller to a willing buyer'. And to a reputable buyer too!!! The auction was not discreet. My Bad - I should of sold it in this market!!!

I recently sold an MS69 for R57000; also on an open listing. My current listing is on a discreet listing and I can tell you this - I have had many more bids from the 'big' buyers as compared to the last one sold. Discreet bidding works. It attracts a larger group of prospective buyers who prefer to remain annonimous.

Now, considering the BoB commision and advertising costs, I honestly dont think it wise to create sales with unrealistic prices to boost future sales. It is very expensive. But then again, BoB would have noted such 'shill bidding' on these auctions and would have done something about it - right???

As for the 'economics of making money' - this topic is has been discussed numerous times. A slabbed coin which is rare will always be more desirable than a raw coin. Unless you are like me and prefer raw coins! A mandela in high grade cannot be judged by the naked, untrained eye, so a raw coin will never attain the prices as those in a slab.

Personally, I believe that even though this forum is a great resource for a vast amount of information, the target audience that this tread is trying to reach, are not reading this forum. Information is power, but if it is not used, it's usless. Maybe BoB should send a link to this forum to all puchasers of Mandela coins once they win. But then BoB must also be able to ammacibly resolve any dispute that may arise therafter should the buyer not want to proceed with purchasing the item after reading this forum! Tricky - Isn't it?

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