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INTELLO

Problem with seller Countshop

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INTELLO

The seller Countshop situated in the USA are not only killing local dealers on Bidorbuy, but also produces false and misleading information about the products they are selling. They sell watches at prices lower than what any seller can buy them for and offers free shipment. Upon asking them a question about the custom taxes they deleted my questions without any answers or response. Why do they now explore outside of the USA? The reason being very easy, they have a fully saturated and heavy competitive market, and cannot only survive on sales there. So what do they do, they sell all over the world, exploiting markets where the recession has hit the hardest already, milking a already dry cow and taking bread and butter from the mouths of sellers in South Africa already struggling to make ends meet. This seller may very well be misleading the customs officials by declaring lower vallues or even no vallues to the products they are selling in South Africa, and thus placing the buyer in the position of being a accomplice to a crime.

 

I beg Bidorbuy to re-evaluate this sellers membership, due to ethical and also humanitarian reasons(please keep the local market active). Bidorbuy has always been a strong fortress and stronghold for local sellers, but with foreign competion, what chances do we have? NONE!! If this sort of notions are being implemented on Bidorbuy, we could just as well join EBAY, not so? I do know that this seller is a paying member and that Bidorbuy will take any money and income from anywhere, but please to keep Bidorbuy alive, please consider this members membership.

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admin

Hi INTELLO,

 

Please report the "false and misleading information " items to communitywatch@bidorbuy.co.za or use the "Spot a problem" link below each items description.

 

Thank you.

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INTELLO

Misleading

 

I did report this to Community watch. Not being my whole point. I have asked the seller to explain and to include the customs tax payment in their payment description, and my question was deleted without response. Why? Think about it.

 

My whole point of opening up this issue on the forum is to get a response from fellow local sellers about this whole issue of allowing foreign sellers that is killing our local markets. I have seen since i joined Bidorbuy since 2000, many sellers dissapear. Many reasons behind that, but mostly unfair competition. Foreign sellers have milked their own market dry, and now attack ours. When finished here, there will be no entrapeneur or local seller left standing. FACT!!

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WATCHES 24 SEVEN

Good day dear friend Intello.

 

Yes this is actually a matter of taking the bread from our tables.The Seller Countshop is based is the USA and send through a free Post Hong Kong.So the Buyers did not see any Customs they have to pay at all.The Seller did not even mention that in his Trade listings."Abusive adverts"

 

No seller is allowed to sell from overseas to local buyers, and mark as Gift or Repairs acording SARS Law.That is a Crimenal ovence.If it appears that Customs open that Parcel,The Seller and the Buyer can face a Penalty of up to R10000.00.

 

It is very important for all our buyers out there in South Afica to know the hard facts.

 

We as Sellers in South Africa, buy the items also from overseas, but we pay all customs and taxes legal, and the buyers are never at any moment at risk to pay for nasty Customs at their post offices.Unnoticed !!!

 

So for all those other Sellers that sell from Overseas, i recommend that they must put the hard facts in there trade listing.There are some others Sellers aswell.

 

Regards

 

Sarel

 

WATCHES 24 SEVEN.

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INTELLO

Please do not misunderstand my point of view regarding FREE market. I do feel that anybody may buy where and when they want. But to destroy a local market can destroy much more than just commission, it can destroy survival in a already desolute and non existing competitive environment, like South Africa. Yes correct. Let South Africans compete, not the world. We will lose.

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MsPlod

Legal and legitimate trade

 

What you are actually asking for is LEGAL trade!

 

No need to justify that at all... PLEASE report the folks who are cutting the legal routes!

 

Just hope that the folks who are prepared to risk saving a buck are prepared to face huge fines for trying to bypass the customs and excise laws?

 

Me, as a buyer - I will ONLY buy from locals!! I would rather pay the extra and know that it is legit, for the same reason I won't buy a cheap car, cell phone, watch, laptop, etc., etc. because I know that it is likely stolen - and I refuse point blank to support crime!:)

 

Viva local sellers - VIVA!!:D

 

Please BoB - take a stand on this issue...

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mellowred

100% agree MsPlod.

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MsPlod

thought you might like to know... BoB ALERT!!

 

I did report this to Community watch. Not being my whole point. I have asked the seller to explain and to include the customs tax payment in their payment description, and my question was deleted without response. Why? Think about it.

 

Asked the same seller the question - "what customs taxes are due on this item?" - I asked it for several of the more expensive watches...

 

Just - 15 minutes ago - received THIS response - Hah!!

 

"Thanks for your interest. We can declare as 'used' and state a low value to help you avoid customs/taxes."

 

Another one's answer (it has now closed) was...

 

"Thanks for your interest. Sorry, this model has stocked out.. "

So BoB - what do YOU think about this seller???:confused:

 

Men's Watches - Seiko Men's Neo Sports Perpetual Calendar SNQ087P1 |NEW for sale in United States

 

Men's Watches - Seiko Premier Kinetic Perpetual Calendar SNP025P1 | NEW for sale in United States

 

Men's Watches - Seiko Velatura Diver's Chronograph Watch SNDA63P1 I NEW for sale in United States

 

Men's Watches - Casio Men's Protrek Titanium PRG130T-7V | Tough Solar | NEW | for sale in United States

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lilythepink

Why would anyone want to buy items from overseas that are available locally, even if the overseas prices are better? There is absolutely no way of knowing that import tax will not be payable - no overseas seller can guarantee this as this decision rests with SA Customs Dept and is final and binding on the buyer. Also, if the item is not as advertised the buyer has absolutely no recourse against the seller in another country. Laying a charge at a SA Police Station will not affect an overseas seller at all. Remember the saying which we are always repeating on this Forum: If an item's price is too good to be true, then it usually is!

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qball

Hi All

 

Morne will be contacting the seller regarding the customs and duties issues (although it is not within our jurisdiction to control or regulate), however, bidorbuy's stance on the issue about foreign sellers is that we will allow them to sell on the site. We believe in an open market philosophy, offering our buying community the biggest range and variety. "Protectionistic" policies are not conducive to growth or opportunity.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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INTELLO

Protectionistic policies

 

Protectionistic policies also dont pay the bills and salaries, especially regarding Bidorbuy, and I did not ever expect or demand that Bidorbuy ban foreign sellers. There are many good ones amongst them.

 

Proof was brought before Bidorbuy that the seller countshop is dealing underhandedly, please read the posts above if you are still unsure. This clearly places the seller in a unfair advantage. All that we ask is that the seller explain why his prices are FAR below that of the competition. How can he do that? By stating that the buyer will be fully responsible for paying full import duties and handling fees that may be levied by custom taxes, no shortcuts. This will leave the buyer with a choice. Example: Selling a watch for R2000 sounds good, but after adding the legal taxes and handling fees from customs, suddenly this watch will cost the buyer approx R2400-R2500.

 

The part about Jurisdiction does have a heavy infuence on Bidorbuy, and hits very closer to home than Bidorbuy might wish for. If for example a crooked seller gets caught out by customs, there will be investigations, and a 100% chance that Bidorbuy's name will be mentioned. Not that Bidorbuy would be involved in any irregularities, but it will place the good Bidorbuy name in bad light for sure.

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qball

Thank you for your reply.

 

As stated above we will be discussing this with the seller concerned, however, we cannot force someone to provide an explanation. There are many factors to consider when selling locally supplied product as opposed to imported or overseas product. For example, the cost of cell phones overseas is hugely discounted as opposed to the local market where a handful of "suppliers/service providers" control the price and market of phones being sold and prices. The other thing to conside is that Customs does not always provide the correct and consistent duties to imported items. One day it is one amount, the next it may be another amount. This is difficult to stipulate exactly on a listing as it does vary. This does not mean it should not be displayed on the listing, the more information a buyer has, the better purchasing decision they can make. However, it is also fair to assume that if you are importing an item, there may be VAT or duties payable on the item. The buyer should always do their research before buying.

 

I am afraid there is not much we can do in this regard, neither can SARS, they simply stop the shipments and have no real recourse against the seller as they are a foreign national in a foreign country, as long as the buyer pays the duties or VAT to release the item. As with anything else, we will assist the authorities to the best of our abilities in these circumstances. Other than that there is very little we can actually do from a legal point of view. I will give you an example of what can happen. A particular forign seller was sending shipments to SA, however, customs kept stopping the items as they believed they were under declaring the values. However, you must also bear in mind, if the item was sold on a R1 auction, and the item sold for R200 in total, even if it's worth R2000, the value is declared as R200. There is nothing illegal in this, as the item legitimately sold for R200, the invoiced price. The seller even flew in from overseas and we accompanied them to SARS to sort out this issue.

 

Thank you again for your comments in this regard.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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countshop

Sellers compete; buyers benefit

 

This is a spirited discussion though unfortunately overcharged with emotion and thus deviating from reason in parts. We will state our perspective ONCE and not participate in the discussion any further because these debates typically end up being partisan and thus irreconciliable.

 

1. INTELLO has repeatedly made the point that their question was deleted. The explanation is simple. We knew they were not a genuine customer and that they were merely a competitor fishing around for information with hostile motives. We knew this from their seller profile and we knew this because they had done the same interrogation with us in 2009 (we had found the records). We communicate with genuine buyers who have a sincere interest in shopping with us. We are under no obligation to engage in dialogue with insecure competitors.

 

2. WATCHES 24 SEVEN grandstanding in defense of the sanctimony of South African customs laws is a bit difficult to take seriously considering that he (Sarel) approached us to source merchandise from us and suggested ways to bypass customs so he wouldn't have to pay import taxes.

 

3. We sell authentic and brand new merchandise at deep discounts. We operate on thin margins but focus on high volumes. This is our business model. If there are sellers out there who find it difficult to compete with our pricing, they often approach us to buy from us. We have already started supplying merchandise to South African business customers who have approached us in this manner. To avoid competing against them, we do not sell directly on bidorbuy any models that we have supplied to a local business who is also selling on bidorbuy. We are thus serving not only South African consumers but also local businesses.

 

4. We no longer state low value for items shipped to South Africa by default. Our actual prices are low enough. We simply include the invoice so there is no ambiguity about the sale price. If there is a customs charge, the buyer must bear responsibility for it. A lot of buyers like LILYTHEPINK will not prefer this. That's fine. Different buyers have different preferences, which is why it is important to have different sellers to keep a market vibrant. We have buyers who still opt to buy from us because even after factoring the possibility of import duties, our prices are often extremely attractive. That said, we will follow shipping instructions from customers to the last letter. If a customer requests that a parcel be marked at a certain value, we will comply. In our eyes, once payment is made, the item belongs to the customer and they can have it shipped however it pleases them.

 

5. Since South African customers have valued our service, we will continue to find ways to serve them better. If we can be closer to them by setting up a regional office and local distribution in South Africa, we will do so. We believe in free market principles and have little sympathy for protectionist rhetoric. While we export branded watches to South Africa, we import semi-precious stones from South Africa for our sterling silver jewelry business. As an internet business fully committed to the ideals of a digital economy without boundaries, we welcome competition because it helps us evolve.

 

 

We applaud qball's stance on this issue. Bidorbuy is focusing on serving South African consumers. We are focusing on serving South African consumers. Those of us who do it well will prosper. CountShop urges all competitors to avoid wasting time on petty hostility and instead focus on improving the customer experience so the market grows for everyone.

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