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The New South African Colour Catalogue

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AngelaBraun

If I had the contact details of Nick (the new owner of Publishing Rights for the 30th Edition of the SACC) I would be sending this directly to him, so if anyone has his contact details please email them to me.

 

I, like many others, waited with excitement and anticipation for the arrival of the SACC, only to be extremely disappointed with all aspects of it.

 

Firstly, the "Blog" in the foreward failed to assist me in understanding the reasoning for reducing prices. The fluctuating exchange rate, inflation and interest rate is a fact of life, however, you do not see Stanley Gibbons, Michel or any other publishing house rushing to alter their prices. They would rather stick to their original price albeit for 10 years down the line.

 

Secondly, the late Lutz Hefferman provided us with a quality hard copy product and I bought my last copy @ R245. The 30th edition, in my opinion, is inferior @ 100% increase in price.

 

Thirdly, every person whom I have spoken to, who bought a copy of the 30th edition, has voiced their disgust and disappointment. Moreover, they have indicated that their copy will gather dust on the bookshelf and they would still be using Lutz's last edition for referencing prices and when this copy becomes outdated, they will revert to one on the international catalogues. Furthermore, they have categorically stated they would not be buying future copies of the SACC. Prospective buyers, once they heard what had been done to the lastest edition, declined the offer to purchace the 30th edition.

 

Fourthly, many dealers have indicated their disgust since they had purchased hundreds of thousands of rands worth of SA stock at the higher prices and are very concerned about their investment made.

 

It would have been better for Nick if he rather embarked on a Market Research campaign amongst the Philatelic fraternity of all walks of life instead of relying on a handful of experts before deciding to make these drastic changes to the catalogue

 

Finally, I think that irreparable harm has done the South African Philatelic community as well as a great disservice from which they will take a very long time to recover. In my opinion, he has shot himself in the foot with a double barrel shotgun, and it will be very interesting to see how well (or badly) he fares with his next edition.

 

Sincerely

Angela Braun

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MrAerospace

Yes, Angela, I have to agree with you. As a pure hobbyist I would be hard-pressed to justify the exhorbitant cost of the 30th edition and when I read all the different postings about the content, I have even less reason to even consider purchasing it.

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Vinyl Lady Decals

I also agree, I wanted a copy of the new SACC, but having read not one positive aspect to it, I'm glad I managed to get a copy of the previous SACC which is now even more invaluable as it dare not get damaged or lost.

 

Usually, it's not a good idea to reinvent the wheel which is what appears to have happened here.

The new broom sweeping clean does not always work and I have seen even in my day job, that it usually causes more harm than good.

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AngelaBraun

Hi Mr Aerospace and Tanaka

 

It will be very interesting to see how many readers will concur or disagree to this post. Thanks for reading it and leaving your comments, really appreciate it.

 

Regards and Blessings

Angela

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dstorm

Hello to all and especially Angela

It will be very interesting to see how many readers will concur or disagree to this post.

Firstly, I agree almost 100% with Angela’s post.

 

But we must remember that the previous edition of the SACC was no accurate at all either. I t had many glaring mistakes, especially as far as the Union was concerned. A case in point is the wrong colour portrayed for the “Large War 4d” (which Gibbons followed blindly!). Also, very often only two or three printings were / are listed while many more exist. In the same vain, sometimes two or three colours are listed while there was only one printing, with numerous shades having developed in the specific issue. The SACC is and was always a very basic guide line, only being invaluable as far as the technical / chronological side was concerned. I am using the word technical in a very wide or basic sense.

 

Also some of the prices were way out - whether they were 30% or 300% out is open to speculation.

 

What I am trying to say is that the “old” SACC was never perfect at all. We have to keep this in mind at all times.

 

[i think that irreparable harm has done the South African Philatelic community as well as a great disservice from which they will take a very long time to recover./QUOTE]

 

With the above I cannot agree more! So many collectors consider the SACC as a bible and they base the value of their collections on the SACC. In this case the perceptions of the majority of collectors are a reality to the dealers!

 

RSA, Modern SWA and Homelands will take a long time to recover!

 

Thanks and regards

 

Jacques

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AngelaBraun

Hello Jacques

 

Your points made are very relevant, however, my main point of contention is not the accuracy, but rather the messing with the pricing structure. Even the new SACC has many faults and omissions and I think you will agree with this.

 

Regards

Angela

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dstorm

Male Pride!

Hello Angela

But I have to agree with you totally on this point Angela. The current pricing structure is WAY OUT!

Perhaps I can send you a “Wants List”. There are many, many stamps in the current SACC that I will buy at FULL catalogue value.

There are 100’s of items that I will buy at half catalogue value. If I had the money, I would have included the BSAC One Pound Double Head Error of colour. “Only R45 000-00!

Regards

Jacques

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AngelaBraun

Hi Jacques

 

I little bit of 'titbit' info. One of my overseas customers had the 1975 tourism 393-6a FDC 2.10 which was catalogued at R30 000 in the old SACC.

 

SFS9742c.jpg

 

She wanted to know if I would sell it locally for her, since she felt there would be a better demand for it here rather than in the States.

 

I asked her to hold on for a few weeks because the new Cat. was about to come out and we can see if there perhaps was an increase in price.

 

Guess what? I am sure you already know the answer. It was repriced at R10 000. There are only 10 known copies of this item and I am sure you will admit this was a shocking result.

 

This is only one incident of many I could mention.

 

Needless to say my customer could not believe what I emailed to tell her until she received her 2010 SACC. She is now a very disappointed dissatisfied and disallusioned trader.

 

Regards Angela

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

Hi,Angela,Jacque and all,

 

Very valid observations indeed.I shall refer to Nick as the Julius Malema of the philatic fraternity.He being a law unto himself or so it seems.

 

There were errors in the old sacc and these could have been corrected and as i have said before certain areas could be reduced to be more realistic (1970 and 1980 commemoratives and not definitives) but to make wholesale changes to proven price guides is totally misguided!!.

 

The sad part is that we all need a reliable and affordable sacc,be you a basic hobbyist,an experienced collector,a new collector or and established dealer as the Stanley Gibbons is out of reach of most and difficult to source as well and then does not give listings of many items we need to check on for SOUTH AFRICAN issues.

 

I do not know what the solution is except to perhaps suggest we discount this catalogue and revert to the older one and use s.g.where possible.

 

It is my understanding that Nick only had publishing rights for this edition and that the rights may well be sold??IF so then we can look forward to a better and more accurate edition next time??

 

REGARDS

NEIL

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AngelaBraun

Hi Neil,

 

Since you mention JM in your reply and since this is the stamps related forum, here's one specially for you.

 

The Post Office Issues a new stamp of Julius M***** and one irate person who bought these stamps calls the Post Master General and says he is quite annoyed with these stamps because when he licks the stamp to place on the envelope, the stamp refuses to stay stuck on the envelope. The Post Master replies "That's because you are spitting on the wrong side of the stamp"

 

Enjoy

Regards Angela

progress.gif

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seahorsefanatic

Hi Neil

 

Fully agree with your observations. Funny how JM's name always seems to appear. Sad that such hothead gets airtime in our society but then we need these political hotheads otherwise life would be boring ;)

 

It will be interesting to see what happens next year with the SACC and whether the lessons have been learnt. Who exactly was involved in setting these prices in the SACC ? I would love to have the names as this could explain the agenda they have in trying to manipulate the market locally. How "they" reached these conclusions would also be interesting.

 

Where an item is so scarce that there are only 10 available and the item is catalogued at say R10,000, there is no way that these items are any more available a year later and therefore would increase in value if only for inflation. How can this item then drop to 50% or less of its value ?

 

Maybe the solution would be to ensure that " the powers that be " have one of the items in their collection then it will be regarded as one of the most valuable and scarce items of the modern era and will probably be valued at R50,000 !!!!:P It will then get a special note in the SACC - how to stroke your ego !!!

 

Lets cut out the bull**** and get back to reality. Eventually all catalogues are going to be available to load on your computer and far easier to use on a tabletop thus leaving more room for your philatelic material instead of having ones work area filled with catalogues. The internet era has arrived some time ago and it is great to see the big players like Scott with their catalogues available in electronic format. I have a 2009 set loaded on my laptop.

 

My point is that catalogues which were previously difficult to get hold of and expensive to buy are now far more accessable electronically and therefore the local fraternity need to wake up. With whats happened to the SACC this year, it can be regarded as 10 steps backwards for our hobby.

 

For the last 3 years I have focused more and more on the internet for information, auctions, dealers etc. Have lost some items stolen in the post but overall it has been a very rewarding experience.

 

Our local philatelic community is small when compared to countries overseas so we get a skewed impression when something like the 2010 SACC comes along. Imagine what would happen if Michel/Scott/Gibbons re-rated their catalogue values as the SACC has done......there would be a riot !!!!

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Vinyl Lady Decals

 

It will be interesting to see what happens next year with the SACC and whether the lessons have been learnt. Who exactly was involved in setting these prices in the SACC ? I would love to have the names as this could explain the agenda they have in trying to manipulate the market locally. How "they" reached these conclusions would also be interesting.

 

I had a very interesting conversation with a friend who collects stamps very casually and he made the same observation. After telling him all about the new SACC disaster, he said that he wondered whether this was a deliberate attempt to manipulate the market for some reason.

 

Makes on wonder, I never saw it as a possiblity until now.

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AngelaBraun

Hi Tanaka

 

Your observations, and those of Seahorsefanatic, are interesting. Just today another one of my customers mentioned this exact same point. market price manipulation. food 4 thought. Hmmmm I wonder. Somewhere there is a hidden agenda.

 

Regards

Angela

Regards Angela

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alloway65

I used to buy the SACC mainly out of loyalty...but really one can get most info needed on the Stanley Gibbons Website for free....at least for UMM Stamps and Used Stamps...forgot the current terminology now being used!!!!

I am sure there was some collusion in the early SACC years....price low what dealers did not have in stock and price high what dealers did have in stock

Regards

David

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AngelaBraun

south african colour catalog

 

Jacques Neil David and others

 

In 1997 the face value for standard mail for a CTO (cancelled to order) commemorative stamp was R1.

13 years later it is still valued at R1 in the 30th Edition of SACC.

 

Just a few months ago when the standard postage rate was R2.25 a CTO commemorative stamp would cost you R2.25 and this stamp is also valued at R1.

 

The standard mail definitive flower. (of which millions have been issued) is also valued at R1.

 

This leads me to one conclusion, and tells me, the message being sent out is:

Do not to waste your time, nor money, as there is no point nor value in collecting used stamps of South Africa.

 

I am sure you are aware that post 2000 how difficult it was to obtain postally used of most commemorative stamps, with the exception of a few sets.

 

One of the panel of experts Nick conferred and consulted with is an officially appointed SAPO supplier, and how an agreement could have been arrived at by this member, to reduce the catalogue values in the latest SACC, boggles the mind. Surely he would have realised that he was also doing harm to his business, because who would buy a R2.25 stamp from him if it is only valued at R1. Unless he has none of that stock left.

 

Again I reiterate the irreparable harm which has been done to the South African Philatelic community from all walks of life albeit collector, dealer, trader or SAPO. I only hope that we will be able to overcome and recover from this fiasco in the very near future.

 

I would love to hear your comments on my synopsis of the above.

 

Regards

Angela

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dstorm

Hello all

Perhaps slightly off topic, but I believe still relevant to the quote:

This leads me to one conclusion, and tells me, the message being sent out is:

Do not to waste your time, nor money, as there is no point nor value in collecting used stamps of South Africa.

 

I have seen many a complete (basic) Fine Used Union collection. I have never seen a complete Fine Used RSA collection, leave alone a Fine Used Homelands collection.

Should you have a complete Fine Used RSA or any Fine Used Homelands collection, you surely have one of the scarcest collections on earth. YET, try to exhibit them on National level – you will not get more than a bronze medal. And a lot of sneering remarks from the “Real Philatelists”.

Let us not even talk about modern postal history.

Thanks and regards

Jacques

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AngelaBraun

I understand exactly what you are saying Jacques and because you are far more involved with most of the Committees and philatelic clubs, than I am, you would know more about the collector who wished to exhibit. However, I am talking about the average man in the street who is, or rather wishes to start collecting stamps as a hobby only.

 

I know that one cannot expect your stamps you have now collected to be worth a packet, but realistically most collectors would love to collect and probably think they are leaving a sound investment to their children one day and this is what I mean by saying the message been sent out is dont collect South African used stamps as it appears as if you are wasting your time and money.

 

Many people who have strong Union and South African collections have seen their investment slashed by rediculous margins in the new SACC catalogue.

 

Another example is of a large dealer who purchased in excess of R170 000 worth of SA Union SWA and Homelands stock before the new catalogue came out, and based his purchase price on the old catalogue. He is furious because this was an investment he made on the premise of reselling at a profit and with most of the stock being devalued, in most cases, by 75% he definitely has reason to be annoyed.

 

Finally are you aware that should you order back dated CTO (used cancelled to order) year packs from SAP0, say for example 1997 (when the standard mail rate was R1.00) you will pay the current price of R2.40 for the standard mail items for that year.

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kennyn

Hi All

Jacques I agree with you totally on fine used and the scarcity of such.Never mind South Africa or homelands,try and complete GB QE11 ,in very fine used condition.Try and find the Red Cross phospher 1/3d and 1/6d in superb commercially used condition.

Quite frankly you wont.As this period is also relatively modern,try and find it on a commercial cover.It is far scarcer than a penny black on cover,

As for conspiricy theories re pricing,bear in mind that a catalogue( in theory) and this certainly applies to Gibbons,Scott,Michel or Yvert is the price the dealer who produces the catalogue is prepared to sell at.

This is regardless of whether they have stock or not.So for example if a modern R1.00 face stamp is cat at R1.00 ,the theory is the dealer will be willing to pay no more than 50c ,as no self respecting dealer will be prepared to work for less on small money transactions.

As we all know,your stamps are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them,so never mind the prices for modern material,half them and you will be even more upset about the revaluation of your collection(older more value material is a different matter)

Regards to all

Kenny

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albertward

I haven't even bought the new one. In my own opinion it is overpriced and according to what I have heard is that the catalog numbers differ from the previous edition (purple blueish one). On the end of the day collectors pay what they are willing to pay for a stamp or stamps and it seldom happens that you actually get the price that is indicated in the catalog. I don't say it does not happen, but if I take myself for instance, I will not pay a penny over the indicated catalog value and if I can get the item for less than catalog value - well I see it as a bargain. I do how ever feel that some stamps are totally under valued where other stamps is listed at ridiculous prices.

 

Albert

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Beyers Herbst

I wish I stumbled upon this thread before I bought my copy of SACC... :mad:

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