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seahorsefanatic

The New South African Colour Catalogue

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seahorsefanatic

I have just received my new 2010/11 SACC catalogue about which I think there is going to be much debate. The drop in value of modern material I feel has been too steep in some cases and I have only looked at a few. For example, the swa 1974 set of bird control blocks drop from R1,850 to R420. There are many other examples.

 

When compared to the big players in the world market such as Gibbons, Michel and Scott it refects the gap in perceptions of our Southern African material compared to the SACC catalogue.

 

With South Africans soon to be exposed to the world markets via Ebay/Paypal (with the help of FNB Bank) and 99% of the world using the 3 major catalogues it would seem that the way to go is to list according to these catalogues.

 

I would appreciate what others think.

 

When looking at the Gibbons Commonwealth catalogue, the Union of South Africa 1927 set of 7 London pictorials, the used set is valued at more than double the unmounted mint set whereas the SACC catalogue values the unmounted mint set at about 60% more than a used set. How does this happen ?

 

This shows that each catalogue needs to be looked at carefully as prices have been set using different data - we like to think that demand or supply has determined the price but me thinks that other forces are at play here.

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voldermort
I have just received my new 2010/11 SACC catalogue about which I think there is going to be much debate. The drop in value of modern material I feel has been too steep in some cases and I have only looked at a few. For example, the swa 1974 set of bird control blocks drop from R1,850 to R420. There are many other examples.

 

When compared to the big players in the world market such as Gibbons, Michel and Scott it refects the gap in perceptions of our Southern African material compared to the SACC catalogue.

 

With South Africans soon to be exposed to the world markets via Ebay/Paypal (with the help of FNB Bank) and 99% of the world using the 3 major catalogues it would seem that the way to go is to list according to these catalogues.

 

I would appreciate what others think.

 

When looking at the Gibbons Commonwealth catalogue, the Union of South Africa 1927 set of 7 London pictorials, the used set is valued at more than double the unmounted mint set whereas the SACC catalogue values the unmounted mint set at about 60% more than a used set. How does this happen ?

 

This shows that each catalogue needs to be looked at carefully as prices have been set using different data - we like to think that demand or supply has determined the price but me thinks that other forces are at play here.

 

So what the few selected stockists do not have in stock & are obviously requiring.........plunges downwards while undoubtedly the very common items which are usually always in stock have gone sky-high.

At least Michel, Stanley Gibbons etc represent the true value of the Southern African stamps.

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dstorm

Hello Seahorsefanatic and Voldermort

I totally agree with everything that both of you have said.

Fortunately (just for myself), as a dealer dealing mostly in Union and SWA proofs, the catalogue value of my stock is hardly affected.

While I have not scrutinized the entire 2010 edition, I just cannot comprehend the fall of the London 2/6 shilling and 5 shilling used (down from R4 500-00 to R2 000 and from R7 000-00 to R3 000-00) respectively. In more than 20 years of trading I have seen the 2/6 shilling used (horizontal pair) twice on the market. One I bought and then sold to a collector who is obviously now upset about taking my advice. About 10 years later, Angela Braun had a pair right here on BoB. I will gladly buy the 2/6 at FULL current SACC catalogue value (in fine used condition with certificate).

On the other end of the market, the pricing of the last 4 years of the Homelands spins my head. Now is the time to buy – even at full catalogue value!

The next year or so will be interesting! I will buy my heart out.

Thanks and regards

Jacques

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seahorsefanatic

After what has already been said, I am of the opinion that the new 2010/11 SACC catalogue gets a big fat thumbs down. What a total dissapointment :mad:

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librashares

What is a catalogue?

 

After what has already been said, I am of the opinion that the new 2010/11 SACC catalogue gets a big fat thumbs down. What a total dissapointment :mad:

 

Catalogues have traditionally been a price list at which the publishing dealer was prepared to sell the said item when in stock. Stamps in plentiful supply usually sold for less, or were discounted by the seller to move excess stock. Scarcer material often commanded a premium. THE MARKET SET THE PRICE!!!!

This 30th edition is none of the above. It rather seems to be a reflection of the opinion of someone who is not interested in the run of the mill items readily available, and views these with disdain.

Which dealer is selling at the prices quoted? Exceptions there are, but to increase the auction price for a rarity by a factor in excess of 600%????? To exclude material in most collectors' albums and stockbooks with the dismissive and arrogant comment that this is "clutter" is a demonstration that the editor and his advisors are out of touch with reality. Many collectors used the SACC as checklist, and used examples are in most instances what is affordable. To omit these, and exclude other material which was previously listed does the hobby no favours, and dramatically reduces the usefulness of the publication as a reference work. I guess the potential buyers will decide for themselves whether this is a softcover book deserving of a place on their bookshelf.:rolleyes:

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RISadler

I have said this many times... the prices in SACC are SG x Exchange Rate at Publication Date. The reason for the current decrease in values, as well as the previous huge increase, should therefore be quite obvious.

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dstorm

Is the current exchange rate R3-00 to the British Pound?

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RISadler

Depends. Or perhaps the automatic price increase macro got fed incorrect data?

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RISadler

Another cause for any drop in prices might be "market value." For example, I still use the 2001 Edition and when calculating how much to pay for the items that I collect, I take that price and half it to get the maximum amount to pay. Usually I get the stamps for a quarter of the listed value in that edition.

 

(Important: I do NOT collect the "sought after" items, simply because they are just too expensive. So no comment in that from me.)

 

Seriously though, I agree that a decrease in listed value has a big impact on the "investment" value of stamps. As too many see SACC as the fixer of actual value, instead of a guideline, much money has probably been lost due to the new edition.

 

Speaking of the new edition, are there any new countries listed? Or is it just an update on RSA and Nam. and prices?

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BumbleBee

It looks like the time is coming for someone in the know to publish some sort of unbiased price guide for stamps and coins. With eBay becoming a viable option for selling and buying on international markets very soon, will the SACC and Herns catalogues be a true reflection of real market values? Maybe a few of the stamp clubs and philatelic societies could get together and compile such a "price list". It need not be as fancy as a colour catalogue, just a list, perhaps in a spreadsheet format that could easily be distributed via email.

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RISadler

BumbleBee, in my opinion price list catalogues are double-edged swords, mixed blessing, and all that.

 

First, it "fixes" the value of an item. Only very few people really adhere to that fixed value, as the market definitely dictates what sells at what price.

 

Second, it creates an artificial value. For example, I recently bought a stamp set valued at over R680 for about R65 on an open auction here on BoB. Now go buy that same set in a shop and you'll pay full catalogue price, plus a handling fee. The questions is therefore, is a specific stamp really worth what the catalogue lists it at? The answer is a resounding no.

 

Third, catalogues are produced by dealers, and dealers want to make money. If a dealer has huge stock of a certain variety, then it will be listed in his/her price catalogue, usually at a premium. If the dealer has no stock of a recently discovered variety, then it usually won't be listed. (This point has recently been proven through the practise of a certain international catalogue to list "unauthorised" stamps at premiums in their catalogues.)

 

In the past one could use a rough formula with age, face value and current value as inputs to determine the rarity of a stamp, and hence its true value. Not anymore.

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BumbleBee

So then its basicaly up to the buyer to decide what he is prepared to pay for an item and how badly he needs it. We are quite new to the stamp collecting scene and are feeling our way around in the dark here. I just picked up a secondhand 2003 catalogue and I find it very helpful in figuring what goes where, but just like the current coin catalogue I guess all the prices are open to interpretation ;)

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RISadler

Exactly! The catalogue is great for "figuring what goes where," but the prices are, in my opinion, not even guidelines anymore. Homeland & RSA commemorative stamps = 50c or face value each, whichever the greatest.

 

I wish somebody would bring out a new edition of the "Southern African Simplified Stamp Catalogue," as SACC is too complicated for beginners and yet too lean for serious collectors.

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BumbleBee

OK, so if I am going to sell off any extra stamps that I have, I was thinking of listing them at 2003 catalogue value, would this be the way to go or would you have another suggestion?

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superswede
I have just received my new 2010/11 SACC catalogue about which I think there is going to be much debate. The drop in value of modern material I feel has been too steep in some cases and I have only looked at a few. For example, the swa 1974 set of bird control blocks drop from R1,850 to R420. There are many other examples.

 

When compared to the big players in the world market such as Gibbons, Michel and Scott it refects the gap in perceptions of our Southern African material compared to the SACC catalogue.

 

With South Africans soon to be exposed to the world markets via Ebay/Paypal (with the help of FNB Bank) and 99% of the world using the 3 major catalogues it would seem that the way to go is to list according to these catalogues.

 

I would appreciate what others think.

 

When looking at the Gibbons Commonwealth catalogue, the Union of South Africa 1927 set of 7 London pictorials, the used set is valued at more than double the unmounted mint set whereas the SACC catalogue values the unmounted mint set at about 60% more than a used set. How does this happen ?

 

This shows that each catalogue needs to be looked at carefully as prices have been set using different data - we like to think that demand or supply has determined the price but me thinks that other forces are at play here.

Ill keep it short the editor and assistants are well out of touch ! The catologue is a joke and borders on arrogant ! I was with a group of very experienced philatelists over the weekend and it was perused as a book of comodies . All i can say is " You have disapointed us " and to those that are still to purchase DONT waste your money !

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RISadler

BumbleBee, I cannot make a suggestion as to asking price for your stamps, but in a previous post I said that "I still use the 2001 Edition and when calculating how much to pay for the items that I collect, I take that price and half it to get the maximum amount to pay. Usually I get the stamps for a quarter of the listed value in that edition." I can just add that for the more valuable items, I set my maximum at 80% of the listed price of the 2001 edition.

 

If you intend to sell some of the higher value stamps, then contact an expert in that field, like dstorm.

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RISadler

superswede, so I gather no new countries are included, like post-independence Swaziland, Lesotho, Zimbabwe or Botswana? If not, then what is the point of the new edition?

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librashares

How to price your stamps now.............

 

OK, so if I am going to sell off any extra stamps that I have, I was thinking of listing them at 2003 catalogue value, would this be the way to go or would you have another suggestion?

 

Ill keep it short the editor and assistants are well out of touch ! The catologue is a joke and borders on arrogant ! I was with a group of very experienced philatelists over the weekend and it was perused as a book of comodies . All i can say is " You have disapointed us " and to those that are still to purchase DONT waste your money !

 

Bumblebee, A quick check back to the 2002/3 edition reveals that you are not going back far enough to get to the prices in the new 2010/11 edition!!! If your material is homelands or modern RSA or SWA, or even USED SWA pairs from 1931, you would still be charging too much if you priced according to the 2002 edition!! There are a few exceptions, but as a general rule, if you sell average material based on the new book you will get burned. I kept a full set of all 29 previous editions, and Superswede quoted above is right, except that commodes is more accurate than comedies to describe some of the logic. Use the internet and Philatelic society contacts to get price guidance, and exercise caution in buying and selling.

 

You could always write to Tracinda Publications( P.O.Box 413877,Craighall 2024), and ask for a list of dealers who are selling at the quoted prices.

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BumbleBee

Thanks for your input librashares. Eish! Now I'm even more confused than I was yesterday..... :confused:

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dstorm

Hello all

Now is the time to sell at catalogue prices.

I will buy up to 1 000 (minimum 50 to justify postage costs) of the Ciskei Definitive 21c UM stamp (SACC 174) at FULL catalogue value – R5-00 each.

Please post a link if you can oblige.

Thanks and regards

Jacques

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seahorsefanatic

Hi Jacques

 

Me thinks you will be very happy to buy at the new SACC prices !!!! What about a nice 2'6 London horizontal pair with certificate. SG value it at 350 pounds ( R4,550 ) whereas our local catalogue now values it at R2,000 - therefore Gibbons is more than double SACC ;)

 

On the other hand, Bophuthatswana Grasses at face less 20% does'nt look so cheap anymore - What about face less 50% !!!! How much more ridiculous is this going to get ? :D

 

Looking at the other reponses to my posting, it is easy to think in terms of demand and supply but this does not solve the problem. This is the theory behind the pricing of any item, be it petrol, toothpaste or tomatoes. What one can see in practice is a skewing or manipulation of the market to tease it in a certain direction to favour some selfish goal or is it just ignorance of the market ? :o

 

My case in point is the Transkei FDC 1.2 which for years was catalogued at R90. Reasonable considering that only 12,700 were made. This item has now dropped to a catalogue value of R25. When one looks at the homeland material, the supply has dried up somewhat as the better thematic sets have dissapeared overseas together with the rest. The glut of homelands material in the past was the build up when printings were increased in the 80's and the country was still enjoying sactions from the rest of the world. Since 1994 when the world started opening up to South African products, philatelic material has steadily moved outside the country. :confused:

 

As a regular at the Fairs in Pretoria and JHB over the last 30 years, I have seen the quantity of Homelands and SWA material available to buy on auction steadily decline. I am sure there are still good stocks locally with some dealers.

 

Thank heavens I diversified my collections years ago to concentrate on eastern Europe, Japan, Canada and USA while most local collectors focused on Southern Africa. Demand for what I collected was low at the Fairs and hence I picked up the material cheaply while the rest were fighting over Rhodesia, SWA etc. Here the market did what it was supposed to do, namely that the price would be set by demand and supply

 

What I would like to see over the next year or two, is the reaction of the big boys in the market ( SG, Michel, Scott ) to the pricing of the same material as listed in SACC. If the reduction of up to 80% of prices in the SACC is ignored by the big 3 and we become global players with the likes of Ebay and others, then the market is not going to use our "local" price list. :cool:

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voldermort
Hello all

 

Now is the time to sell at catalogue prices.

 

I don't think anybody in their right mind (who knows even a bit about stamps) would sell the good quality items at the new catalogue price ;)

 

Sam

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voldermort

I am sure that SG, Scott, Michel etc know the real market very well & shall pay very little, if any, attention to the new catalogue..........obviously with regards to the good quality items.

 

Sam

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dstorm

Hello Voldermort

I actually could have said: Now is the time to BUY at catalogue prices.

Regards

Jacques

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