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jaydon01

Charge for each additional item...????

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

Hi all,The problem here is that the buyers DO NOT READ the shipping charges and instructions-I have buyers still paying me shipping charges of 2 months ago after i changed them due to sapo increase,NEIL

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RISadler

Neil, your buyers are just following the example set by SACC!

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lilythepink
Ofcourse that's fine Lily. My problem (irritation!) is when certain sellers charge R30, R40 or even R50 per additional item, so that the bidder winning an item at R1 doesn't actually get a bargain... Nope, they are simply buying the item at the same price (or more) than the local store charges. It's utterly ridiculous :mad:

 

 

@brands online: Where have you ever walked into a shop and saw a cd player for R200, microwave for R300 and dvd for R100.... AND (or should I say but) you can buy them at these "CRAZY LOW PRICES" if you pay R100 extra per item. I mean really? That type of dubious selling technique won't be entertained for long before clients simply start walking past your shop and gossiping about the crazy owner/salesperson inside....

 

Which is exactly what happens on BoB... Yet for some unfathomable reason this practice is still allowed and happens daily.

 

I absolutely agree with you, Amanda. Too many sellers are doing rip-offs with additional items and should be stopped in their tracks!

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MsPlod

another seller who refuses to combine...

 

I've seen with other sellers as well. They will refuse to combine the items, even if they are really small and not exactly fragile. With these sellers I either don't bid or if I really like the items, will only buy one item.

 

Silver - Solid 925 Sterling silver ring, size 6.5 for sale in United States

 

Almost without fail - the items get sold for R1 (plus shipping).

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windrider

Just asked for my bid to be deleted on an auction that offered a reasonable enough postage for the first item (R44), but the additional items are at R30 each. Unfortunately, due to the new mobile desk policy, my 'desk for the day' is positioned in such a manner that the sun is in my eyes. So I misread each additional item at R3, not R30. I asked for my bid to be deleted and thank goodness, the seller was kind enough to remove my bid.

 

Still, R30 for each additional bead bracelet is somewhat excessive. I still see a great deal of excessive postage, especially when it comes to combining items. I just wonder why some sellers think it is okay for their business to make money based on the confusion/rush of buyers and not by selling their products.

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lilythepink

I've "discussed" these exhorbitant "additional item" amounts several times with BoB but nothing gets done about it. Additional charges for things over 1 kg are fair, but any parcel weighing under 1kg should NOT be subjected to additional charges. It's never fair to take buyers for a ride.

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brands online

I still maintain that a seller should be able to charge whatever they feel they want to as long as they display their charges upfront and not 'surprise' the buyer afterward. The onus is on the buyer to read all charges as with any other contract. It's utterly ridiculous to complain if as a buyer, you don't read the details of the contract. What's more is there's no duress placed on any buyer to bid/buy anything from any seller, so how can you complain?

 

Yes, I do see a few ppl complaining on the forum especially, but look at some of these seller's sales and ratings. Appaently tens of thousands of ppl at least don't have a qualm about these costs because generally ppl understand the concept of 'the price you SEE, is the price you PAY'.

 

@ Asha - As for sellers charging what they want to is and should be their concern only. If they 'scare' buyers away from their products with their charges, that should be good news for other sellers.:)

 

BOB, I personally feel shouldn't even get involved as it doesn't concern them. They don't get involved when sellers lose money from advertising because of SNC's, as the advertising costs are displayed and charged 'upfront'. These costs can also be considered as 'high' when one takes into account that let's say 70-80% (if not higher) of BOB is automated. And sellers who don't want to pay these costs, simply don't make use of 'enhanced' listings and structure their business according to what they feel comfortable with. The same should be expected from buyers. That they structure their spending according to what they feel comfortable with.

 

I know this a rather touchy subject all round, and I rather expect someone at BOB to respond in the 'best interests of BOB'. That's basically all you get when it comes to this...:rolleyes::)

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brands online
I've "discussed" these exhorbitant "additional item" amounts several times with BoB but nothing gets done about it. Additional charges for things over 1 kg are fair, but any parcel weighing under 1kg should NOT be subjected to additional charges. It's never fair to take buyers for a ride.

 

It's equally not fair to take sellers for a ride either Lily. When you sell hundreds of items that range in size from a matchbox to a cabinet, and weight from 10g - 50kg, then not charging for additional items is impossible. Unless you pack everything into the cabinet perhaps and send it off:p

 

Buyers will buy 10 pins from you that you charge R20 to send off and combine 15 other items ranging from wheelbarrows to canoes and expect you to ship it for R20. The 1kg thing doesn't work either. I have parcels that weigh 200g but are too large for econo.

And quoting after auction closes only causes endless problems with buyers who feel the lowest possible charge is too much because you didn't say so upfront.

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Cali Craft and Gems

I for one do not charge a combining fee, but sometimes I wish I did!

 

Per example, had a massive bead order this past week which took me almost 3 hours to count out and pack. As the order was over R700, it qualified for our free promotional econoparcel postage up to 1kg, but the parcel was almost 2kg when packed. The charge difference to the buyer according to our postage rates would be R5, but the difference in SAPO rates is R16.10! I did not ask the buyer for the additional funds.

 

My point being that the profit on this "massive" parcel excluding packing and postage materials (bags, bubblewrap, bought box, etc) was miniscule. But if I'd charged even R1 extra combining fee per item, I would have pocketed an additional R65 at least!

 

Thus my overall opinion that charging a combining fee is merely to make money - you should be combining items into a parcel as a pleasure for your buyers!

 

As a buyer myself, I recently purchased some gems from another seller. Upfront costs were R40 for the first item, and R5 per item thereafter. Based on the type of item sold, I was under the assumption that the extra cost would be to pack each gem in it's own box thus the additional charge, but I was wrong. Gems were "slapped" together in used worn packets and "thrown" into an envelope.

 

Sadly to say I have had this poor experience with several gem sellers already! If you are going to charge extra, at least pack the gems properly. If you're going to just issue used packets, then do not charge - your time to put more than one item in an envelope is not valued at a couple of rands per second!

 

Imagine if when doing your grocery shopping the retailer charged you per additional item put into the packet? You'd be kicking up a fuss in no time!

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windrider

By that line of reasoning you place all the problems at the buyer's feet. So the sellers who make money on postage are fully in their rights to do so (never mind that in this way they also cheat BoB out of their profits). I have a phrase to describe this kind of situation "Unethical business practice" and despite that not many sellers do it, it smears all the sellers on BoB and by extension the site itself with the same ugly brush, especially if the buyer(s) is new and is likely to make mistakes when buying on the site for the first time.

 

Most people don't protest when the shipping is extra for heavy or fragile, they protest when the combination of a few small items end up costing more than all the auction combined. In my view as a buyer, sellers like this should be reported and dealt with accordingly (by BoB requesting that their shipping charges are not too excessive).

 

Also, in my experience on this site, most sellers will explain the reason for an unusually high cost of postage for an item - e.g. shipping from overseas and postage will cover the customs cost or combining books will make it heavier and thus will require extra money for postage. Strangely, you don't see negative ratings for postage for these sellers.

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brands online

@windrider - Expecting a buyer to 'read' before they sign on the dotted line is not placing all the problems at the buyer's feet. Which is why you don't see so many negative ratings. It's not strange, it's common sense. BOB don't get 'cheated' out of their fees either. If a buyer bid's R100 and you charge R10 or R50 postage, the commissions are still only charged on the bid.

 

@Cali - When retailers started 'charging' for packets, some ppl started taking taking their own packets/bags with when going shopping, yet other's still buy packets.

And still, some retailers charge for packets and some don't. If you carry that concept across, then sellers can charge or not and buyers can buy or not. These things also keep competition open.

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sungems

Although I do agree that postage should be controlled in a way, seller charge what they feel is a fare price to deliver the item/s to the buyer (within Bob’s rules). This delivery cost does not always only include postage but a bundle of other costs. IT IS THE CHOICE OF THE BUYER TO BUY OR NOT TO BUY.

If the buyer feels they are willing to pay this shipment (with combining fees) it is their choice. If they are not satisfied with it, they should not buy from that seller.

The problem gets when the buyer do not read, but even after not reading or miss-reading, they should not complain as nobody is supposed to buy something if they did not properly read all the sellers terms and conditions, payments and amounts due to pay.

The buyers can only blame themselves if they are paying more on shipment than they would have like to pay as these amounts were available before they decide to bid & if the screen blurs or they misread a line it is still there own fault not the seller’s and the seller can still not be blamed for it.

Even if the seller does ask R500 and no combining are allowed the buyer should still not complain after they placed a bid. Report them before and without bidding on the item, but if they do bid/buy they should be liable for the commitment they made.

I give those sellers applauses how can only charge R25 and no combining fee. We are a large company and BOB is only our platform for the items that do get into too small batches to sell wholesale. Firstly we do have company vehicles and our shipment fees is not just the post office cost but this delivery/shipment fee need to include some amount to cover the vehicle cost, the driver salary, gasoline and insurance. The packaging although not expensive, still needs to be included in the shipment fee. We also do charge combining fee as we need to cover the employee time spend on packing who sometimes sits up to one hour to get all the tiny/small/low amount items together for one buyer.

Most of the sellers on BOB are working for themselves but if they did work for a company they would not want to use there own private vehicles or own gasoline to deliver the co’s parcels to the post office & if they are spending one hour to combine all items in one parcel they do not mind as their time are their own. WE can not do that and although I think that our R35 with a combining fee of R3 in not excessive some other users might disagree BUT THEN AGAIN: It is the buyers prerogative and choice to buy from whom they want, they should just make sure about all the sellers terms, conditions and payments

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Cali Craft and Gems

@Sungems - you have raised some valid points, and commend you on your postage cost and low combining fee - this is still acceptable. Unfortunately one will still find some sellers who really "go to town" with the postage and combining fee!

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lilythepink
This seller must be running at a loss even charging posting per item as a great number of her items sell at R1

 

I once bought an item from Tipisia in the USA. Got an absolute bargain at R1.00 and had no problems whatsoever. This is obviously a seller who is an asset to BoB! :)

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sungems
@Sungems - Unfortunately one will still find some sellers who really "go to town" with the postage and combining fee!

 

Yes, I totally agree but then they (the buyer or who ever) should report it to BOB. BUT if the buyer decides to bid/buy on those sellers with excessive or whatever amount for postage they acknowledge they know what they are getting themselves into and, AGREE to pay whatever is charged. Most of the time buyers who want to be excused from their obligation are looking for any possible reason to get out of the sale and are then reaching for any possible excuses.

 

This seller must be running at a loss even charging posting per item as a great number of her items sell at R1

 

There is not just this one seller from outside SA, there are a bundle and a lot of their auctions are also going for only R1 and some with higher postage fees. BUT I am sure they have all been looked into by BOB as this tread is going on for months and they would have read all this each day.

 

I once bought an item from Tipisia in the USA. Got an absolute bargain at R1.00 and had no problems whatsoever. This is obviously a seller who is an asset to BoB! :)

 

I also bought from sellers outside SA and accepted I need to pay more for postage and got good deals.

 

You must remember that postage form overseas gets charged per gram or part of each 10/20/50/100 gram therefore combining might be a problem or also expensive depending on the shipment method. If you do get what were described and paid not more than what were given beforehand why complain.

 

 

If we do have better postage cost than other sellers and our product are what the buyer want, why waist time to look for more expensive sellers. Buyer will come back to those who they find provide good products, reasonable shipping prices and excellent service.

 

And if you do came across sellers (by accident) that you think is doing something wrong report them.

 

Tipisa might not even know you are discussing them and as lilythepink said she bought from them and received a bargain irrespective the overseas shipping rates that were charged (more expensive but I think still reasonable for an oversea parcle)

 

We need diversity on BOB and sellers not form SA is a good thing, even only amongst other benefits: to let the buyers know/release our local sellers postage is cheaper.

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tipisa

We stumbled on this thread by accident. As to the number of comments we posted you can see we do not visit the forum often. We need to clarify a few things as it seems we are discussed for quite a while (not nice doing this without notifying us of it).

 

BOB do know about us and the postage fees we do charge. I can not make any claims on their behalf but according to our conversations via email our fees, terms and conditions were accepted by them (Caun).

 

Our postage fees do not only include shipping fees from the USA to SA but a number of different fees are included in our fees. This are also provided on each auction for the prospected buyer to see

Our fees are divided in 4 categories

1. Speed delivery to a agent in SA

2. Import duties and relevant taxes

3. Shipment within SA

4. Insurance on both parcels

 

 

  • Shipment from the US is an already combined fee. It cost us a minimum of $140 for about 10 -15 items to speed deliver to SA (depending on its weight) After about 10 items the fee increases as the weight increase. As you can see form our shipment fees we charge for this part it is far below $140(R1000) therefore it is already a combined fee
  • Insurance is obvious: you pay insurance on to total amount paid by the buyer. If the buyer pays us R200 in total they would not want it insured for only R20 or any nominal amount, this is not an option but a necessity we do not want lost parcels and we are getting blamed for not receiving the goods.
  • Import duties and taxes is payable when someone purchase anything in another country. We when starting to sell in a new country, approach a local citizen to help us with this. This agent is accepting the parcel, pays those import duties and then just forwards the parcel to the buyer. If an item is purchased for a nominal amount, your customs department asks for the value of the item or gets it from an independent jeweler. If the purchase price is far below the value, they use the value to calculate the amount payable. The value of the item and import duties is added together and another 10% is added to this amount, on this amount the 14% vat is calculated.

If an item is therefore declared a value of R200 import duties is R20. Vat is calculated on R245 (R200 + R20 + 10%) VAT = R33.88 Therefore an R200 valued item will cost R53.88 for import duties and taxes. Stands to reason: this also is payable on each item and when more than one item are won each item import duties and Taxes needs to be paid separate.

  • Lastly the shipment in SA is only R25 on every item. This is lower than most of the sellers shipping cost that does sell from within SA. This we used to combine but it confused the buyers, they can for the life of anybody, mostly, not understand how it work and for each buyer we needed to send dozens of explanation emails, we therefore (for our sanity) decided to make this an un-combinable section as well. We also do post them separate once in SA, therefore not having these funds for our self.

If you as a buyer only buy one/two items form outside SA and you need to pay the import duties and taxes your self you might be lucky to deflate the value of the items, we can not. In SA, we are not only selling on BOB but various other sites, resulting a couple of items that is coming through SA customs every week. Our reputation at SA custom is far too valuable to try and score a couple of rand on the taxes

 

Yes, we are not making much but this is our decision and our motifs and reasons were provided to Cuan at BOB.

 

Even with the shipment fees that seem high the buyer does get excellent value for the total amount they spend on the jewelry.

 

Our turn around time since payment reflects in our account and the item is cleared by customs in SA is average 3-5 working days. Therefore proof that we do send the parcel speed delivery to SA

 

I once bought an item from Tipisia in the USA. Got an absolute bargain at R1.00 and had no problems whatsoever. This is obviously a seller who is an asset to BoB! :)

Thanks to Lilythepink that did had a good comment on us, we hope you have pleasure wearing the items bought and she can confirm that her items arrived in separate parcels

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windrider

I see a lot of sellers jumping to defend themselves, but I believe this thread is not about having charges per additional item, but about those charges being excessive, especially in comparison to other sellers. I think this is what a lot of buyers, myself included are unhappy with.

 

Perhaps the point is to charge 'within reason'. Subjective term I realise, but in my opinion if the seller charges 2-3 times more on additional items than other sellers, they should be reported. I'm not talking about charging R45 instead of R40.

 

I'm going to use an example with jewellery, since this is what I buy a great deal of on BoB.

The seller selling 6 bracelets with a charge of R30 per additional item. The seller than sells them only @R1 each. With say shipping for first item of R50 plus 5 items at R30 additional item charge, the seller receives R200 in shipping and R6 in sold items. So do 6 bead bracelets require R200 worth of packaging plus tracking number and padded envelope price? I somehow don't think so. Remember, the seller only pays listing fees and percentage on a R6 sale, not postage. So on one sale, the seller 'technically' lost money, but the shipping more than makes up for it.

 

Why would I, as a buyer complain? Because I see a seller with very similar/in some cases identical products, charge R40 per first item and R5 per additional item. Why should I pay so much for postage? This is often true when the seller with the more 'reasonable' postage doesn't always have stock of what I want. I would also prefer to support sellers that do charge 'reasonable' amount for postage, because especially after looking at this forum, I feel that they have a higher standard of business ethics.

 

Of course, prices would be different for different categories. Still, buying two heavy appliances would be higher postage fees for combining the two items. any experienced buyer will see, that charging extra R30 per item is different from stating R80 per parcel for the same products just by browsing the listings. The thing is, the novice buyers are the ones that get caught most often.

 

 

 

Also: Yes, our responsibility as buyers is to read before we bid, but mistakes or even impulsive decisions do happen. Should the buyer be cautioned? Absolutely! I do feel that many sellers can make the allowances for mistakes of buyers (on individual case basis at least) instead of portraying hurt innocence and promising swift retribution.

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sungems
I see a lot of sellers jumping to defend themselves, but I believe this thread is not about having charges per additional item, but about those charges being excessive, especially in comparison to other sellers. I think this is what a lot of buyers, myself included are unhappy with.

 

.

 

I agree, but to make sure those buyers with excessive fees don’t last long on BOB: DO NOT BUY from them. They will quickly stop selling or reduce there fee structure to get sales.

 

 

Also: Yes, our responsibility as buyers is to read before we bid, but mistakes or even impulsive decisions do happen. Should the buyer be cautioned? Absolutely! I do feel that many sellers can make the allowances for mistakes of buyers (on individual case basis at least) instead of portraying hurt innocence and promising swift retribution.

 

 

I agree again but you as an honest buyer will not believe the time a seller spend on sales that do not get concluded at the end. There are a lot of buyers that are looking for an excuse to get out of the sale (legit or not/ a real honest mistake or not)

 

We as sellers (selling for a while) spend sometimes more time on sales that are not concluded at the end than the successful sales. First we need to clarify a couple of things for the buyer AFTER the auction closed that should have been asked before the time, then we need to remind the buyer to pay, remind a second time, they then make excuses and sometimes ask for payment extension, when this time expire we need to remind them again to pay. A SNC eventually is filled and the buyer indicates they still plans to pay or appeal; Now we need to wait another week and all this take a lot of time and record keeping that we do not get paid for via a successful sale.

 

Although not all sales are that much in detail we spend more time in total on buyers complaining about something/anything, just to get out of the deal, reminders to pay and SNC to be filed and time spend to relist the item.

 

This is why sellers do have a strict set of terms and conditions because previous BUYERS abused the system and the “allowances for mistakes” allowed at a time by them.

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Vinyl Lady Decals
I

I agree again but you as an honest buyer will not believe the time a seller spend on sales that do not get concluded at the end. There are a lot of buyers that are looking for an excuse to get out of the sale (legit or not/ a real honest mistake or not)

 

We as sellers (selling for a while) spend sometimes more time on sales that are not concluded at the end than the successful sales. First we need to clarify a couple of things for the buyer AFTER the auction closed that should have been asked before the time, then we need to remind the buyer to pay, remind a second time, they then make excuses and sometimes ask for payment extension, when this time expire we need to remind them again to pay. A SNC eventually is filled and the buyer indicates they still plans to pay or appeal; Now we need to wait another week and all this take a lot of time and record keeping that we do not get paid for via a successful sale.

 

Although not all sales are that much in detail we spend more time in total on buyers complaining about something/anything, just to get out of the deal, reminders to pay and SNC to be filed and time spend to relist the item.

 

This is why sellers do have a strict set of terms and conditions because previous BUYERS abused the system and the “allowances for mistakes” allowed at a time by them.

 

Hello Sungems

 

You are, of course, absolutely right about problem buyers who are difficult to deal with.

I've discovered, though, with the new sales management system, that there seem to be fewer problem buyers as our mails to them go through the BoB system. Payments are happening much faster and I'm filing fewer SNC and sending fewer reminders. All round, great for everybody involved.

 

Even so, strict terms are necessary, to keep the "chancer buyers" from taking chances.

maybe this new system will discourage these chancers from using BoB and make BoB a safer place for all.

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