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  2. The “problem” with the NGC picture of the MS63 2/- is that it was taken by a scanner and not with a digital camera. When a picture is taken of a coin with a digital camera it is fairly easy to spot the difference between a proof and a non-proof but with a scanner it is difficult. Now here is a picture of the 1931 MS63 2/- compared to a 1948 2/- both scanned. Both look like non-proofs to me, the 1931 date actually more proof-like Now that same 1948 coin is shown below: – one picture scanned and the other taken with a digital camera. The coin is a proof.
  3. Yesterday
  4. dcdoberman

    MELTING OLD COINS

    Yes, I've always wondered why people pay many multiples of the face value of the "legal tender" gold 500 rands and silver 50 rands issued by the SA mint (a wholly owned subsidiary of the SARB).
  5. Thanks, very useful information. Another indication would be where this coin came from. Is it a circulation strike mixed in a proof set or not? This occasionally happens, but if it did, the owner will never admit it. This would make it more likely that NGC graded the coin in error. This was the purported source to my recollection with at least one of the 1936 farthings currently graded as MS or "specimen" which I consider proof "rejects". I also bought a 1947 proof set with an MS shilling from DNW back in September, 2008. However, DNW identified the coin as an MS, the distinction was obvious and NGC graded it MS-63. The 2/6 was somewhat "cloudy" and was initially graded MS-63. I subsequently had it conserved and NGC graded it PR-63. I also recall that you had a 1947 2/- that NGC initially graded MS-68. It was discussed on this forum, briefly. It's no longer in the NGC census. In the above images, an interesting difference between your coin and the NGC MS-63 is that the strike appears much sharper on the graded circulation strike. With the limited production run, it's a lot more likely but not something I would necessarily expect. Lastly, the NGC MS-63 doesn't have the reflectivity of a proof in the image which is more consistent with a circulation strike. (More like a specimen to me given the strike which is consistent with the low mintage.) Yours doesn't really either but I infer it's the image only, as it still looks like a proof. Aside from an independent opinion by someone who knows more about this than I do, the next best option would be to compare the NGC MS-63 directly with numerous confirmed proofs.
  6. Regarding the unique 1931 Two-Shilling that has been graded MS63 – the only non-proof 2/- coin in the NGC census (including the details census):- The question was asked if the coin is really a non-proof coin and not possibly a proof coin that was erroneously graded. Thirty years ago, Sam Lieberman wrote an article in Journal number 2 of the Association of South African Numismatic Societies entitled ”Coins of South Africa. The 1931 Short Proof Set”. He made this very interesting observation … ” (a) feature of the 1931 Proof Set is that it is the only set where the coins were finished off by hand. The Master Dies were manufactured in London and then sent to the Pretoria Branch of the Royal Mint. These dies had a very deep “False Rim” giving the coin a higher than usual rim on both obverse and reverse sides. This high rim was then filed by hand as will clearly be seen (here)” If I understand the pictures correctly – the 1 mm blank strip between the inside reeding (called denticles) and edge reeding (milling) has been filed off so that that there is no blank space between the two. The big question is if all 1931 proof coins were hand filed or just those that had extra high rims? Because if all were (even only slightly) an expert would be able to pick it up under magnification and THAT would be a tell-tale difference between 1931 proofs and non-proofs – especially for the larger coins like the two-shillings and half-crown. Here are pictures of the unique MS63 1931 2/- and a proof 2/-. The latter was in my personal collection. I cannot see any edges filed on either coin, but it is obviously very difficult spotting that from pictures than in person.
  7. Pierre_Henri

    MELTING OLD COINS

    I have just find an article in De Nummis of May 2017 by Professor Francois Malan entitled "The rights of the South African Reserve Bank with respect to historic coinage" The coins that the SA Reserve Bank have no rights over are coins & tokens that circulated in SA before 1874, the Blank (Kaal) Ponde of 1900 and the 1898 Sammy Marks Tickeys. Also the Gold Sovereigns and Half Sovereigns minted at Pretoria from 1923 to 1932 (the reason being that the Royal Mint supplied the dies and the United Kingdom own the rights to these coins) The coins that there is no clarity regarding their ownership are the 1874 Burgersponde and the Veldponde of 1902. The SA Reserve Bank "owns" all other ZAR coins (including those struck in Berlin in 1892) as well as those of the Union (1923-1960) and obviously those of the RSA since 1961.
  8. belix

    SNC - Buyer appeals - 7 more days given to pay

    Non paying buyers are getting to epidemic proportions. And the 14 day wait for SNC is ridiculous. I'm a low volume seller and judging by non payment and non communication, I've got two items now on their second round of non payers. It's so easy for bidders to ask BoB or seller to delete their bid, but even that is too much effort for them. I suggested to BoB that a deposit be paid on any buyer wanting to bid on anything, that gets forfeit if they don't pay. Can't see a problem with this. Perhaps it will stop some new people registering, but I suspect that they would be exactly the kind of people that are not paying on their winning bids anyway. People will be a lot more careful if they stand to lose R100 by not completing a winning bid. BoB is going to lose more and more sellers until they get some mechanism in place.
  9. Cold Sea

    MELTING OLD COINS

    I have tried to post the Reserve bank reply I got before, but BOB admin must clear it first. It explains it better
  10. Cold Sea

    MELTING OLD COINS

    Hi Pierre, see the e-mail below that I received earlier in the year from the Reserve bank. Dear Tumelo LSD has previously advised CMD that ZAR coins issued between 1892 and 1902 (“ZAR Coins”) remain legal tender in South Africa until demonetised by the Minister of Finance. That advice remains constant and is hereby reiterated. We agree with Maggie’s views that defacing of the abovementioned ZAR Coins will amount to a contravention of the South African Reserve Bank Act (s34). Trading in altered or counterfeit ZAR Coins (like all other legal tender coins) will also be a contravention of the South African Reserve Bank Act(s34). Anyone who willingly defaces ZAR Coins or counterfeits them, may be criminally prosecuted for contravention of the provisions of the South African Reserve Bank Act (s34). Any reproduction of ZAR coins is subject to the same requirements as other legal tender coins. Please feel free to contact us if you need any further information and/or clarity. Many thanks Mr. Kabelo Mohale Specialist Legal Counsel Legal Services Department P O Box 427 Pretoria 0001 South Africa 370 Helen Joseph Street (formerly Church Street) Pretoria 0002 Tel. +27 12 313 4170 Fax +27 12 399 7190 Cell +27 73 651 5029 E-mail: Kabelo.mohale@resbank.co.za www.resbank.co.za
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